Christians do not believe in the God of the Bible

March 11, 2007 at 3:23 pm 52 comments

Bible PageI’ve read the recent comments from Christians on this blog and realized that the reality is Christians do not believe in the God of the Bible. I know I did not. The God I served was a loving, compassionate, kind, caring Father in heaven who loved and valued us above us else. He had a plan for my life. As he said in Jeremiah 29:11:

For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

Here is Richard Dawkins’ description of the God of the Old Testament:

Jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

In spite of this, Christians believe that God is a good God. They somehow mask over the many samples of genocides and killings to believe that God is compassionate towards us (Previous link contains only a sample but contains the actual verses for your reading pleasure. Here is a more comprehensive list).

In the comments I referred to earlier, Christians (primarily women) are saying that the Bible is not sexist. I’m not sure how they really interpret the scriptures on wives submitting to their husbands or that man is the head of woman, however, they have devised a way to say that the Bible declares that men and women are equal.

Christians need to come to terms with this dilemma they face. In my opinion, they should solidify their version of Christianity by not accepting the passages in the Bible which contradict their definition of God.

- The de-Convert

Entry filed under: The de-Convert. Tags: , , , , , , , , .

A positive aspect of faith? The real definition of a godly woman

52 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Brian  |  March 14, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    I agree with this post. I think many Christians ignore the elements of the Bible that make them uncomfortable, such as demon possession, sexual bias, violence, etc. It’s convenient, but confusing.

    There are things in the Bible, such as the views on women, that were probably related with the culture of the day. Does that mean that they still apply 2000 years later? I’m not sure. I guess that all depends on the individual’s beliefs about the inerrancy of the Bible, literalism, and legalism.

  • [...] Related Post: Christians do not believe in the God of the Bible [...]

  • 3. Mike  |  March 22, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    I the past couple of months I have realized how nuts this God really is. I have been a evangelical for 8 years and now I’ve had enough…Christianity is one of the most unintelligable religions in the world and the sad thing is that I’ve known this deep down all along…uggh

    The thing that makes me most uncomfortable about the Bible ironically is the resurrection stories – I just don’t see how people can say they all fit together – THEY DON’T and people still believe this madness…anyway, thanks for letting me vent

  • 4. agnosticatheist  |  March 22, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    Mike,

    Many of us were duped by this system to which we devoted a large percentage of our lives and time. Of course, it was not all negative and there were good things there.

    The reality is the Bible is inconsistent with the God I believed in and when I figured that one out, I was left to try to find a basis for the God I believed in… and could not… hence my agnostic atheism. I would love to believe that there is a loving, compassionate, caring God in heaven but evidence does not support this belief.

    aA

  • 5. Patrick  |  March 31, 2007 at 1:53 pm

    I can understand what you are saying, but I think that you are not considering all of God. Sure, everyone prefers a God that is loving and caring and has no rules. But that’s not the God of the Bible, which you are correct to point out.

    Let me ask you, if you were to invent your own god, what would he be like? Think about it. Most people would automatically say that he would be LOVING. But when thinking about it more, most would also say they want a JUST god. So, LOVING and JUST.

    You seem to think that because God is JUST and has established JUSTICE, then He cannot be the loving, forgiving God so many Christians believe in. I say that with out His Justice, he cannot be considered loving at all.

    Something somewhere must establish right and wrong. Christians believe it is GOD that had done so. We all agree that some things are clearly wrong. We all pretty much agree on the rights and wrongs contained in the Ten Commandments. Don’t steal, don’t lie, etc. Pretty universal. What we don’t agree on is the PENALTIES for these wrongs.

    You think that since you wouldn’t apply the same penalty as the God of the Bible does, then the God of the Bible is cruel and evil. You are passing your own judgement. So you believe that your judgement is correct and you can judge God, but his judgement is NOT correct and he cannot judge you. An Eternal God, the God that created YOU, somehow knows less than you on this subject. When is passes judgement and does not forgive, you say, “I would forgive that” and you believe yourself to be superior to God, at least in the Love department.

    It’s the combination of LOVE and JUSTICE that you don’t seem to understand. Love compels God to maintain perfect Justice. Justice displays Gods perfect Love. One without the other is worthless.

  • 6. agnosticatheist  |  March 31, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    Patrick,

    The “JUSTICE” argument can only attempt mask the the atrocities credited to the God of the Bible. There is no way you can view the things God supposed did in the Bible as any form of justice. Killing a man for gathering wood on the Sabbath? Killing people for complaining? Killing old men, women, children, babies and animals during wars? … and I can go on.

    None of that is a display of “perfect Love.” I’m a mere human and I know how to love.

    aA

  • 7. Doug  |  May 9, 2007 at 10:38 am

    Here’s what Mark Twain said:

    (God) I am plenty safe enough in his hands; I am not in any danger from that kind of a Diety. The one that I want to keep out of the reach of, is the caricature of him which one finds in the Bible. We (that one and I) could never respect each other, never get along together. I have met his superior a hundred times– in fact I amount to that myself.
    – Letter to Olivia Clemens, 7/17/1889

    …a God who could make good children as easily a bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave is angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell–mouths mercy, and invented hell–mouths Golden Rules and foregiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man’s acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!
    – No. 44, The Mysterious Stranger

    If I were to construct a God I would furnish Him with some way and qualities and characteristics which the Present lacks. He would not stoop to ask for any man’s compliments, praises, flatteries; and He would be far above exacting them. I would have Him as self-respecting as the better sort of man in these regards.
    He would not be a merchant, a trader. He would not buy these things. He would not sell, or offer to sell, temporary benefits of the joys of eternity for the product called worship. I would have Him as dignified as the better sort of man in this regard.
    He would value no love but the love born of kindnesses conferred; not that born of benevolences contracted for. Repentance in a man’s heart for a wrong done would cancel and annul that sin; and no verbal prayers for forgiveness be required or desired or expected of that man.
    In His Bible there would be no Unforgiveable Sin. He would recognize in Himself the Author and Inventor of Sin and Author and Inventor of the Vehicle and Appliances for its commission; and would place the whole responsibility where it would of right belong: upon Himself, the only Sinner.
    He would not be a jealous God–a trait so small that even men despise it in each other.
    He would not boast.
    He would keep private Hs admirations of Himself; He would regard self-praise as unbecoming the dignity of his position.
    He would not have the spirit of vengeance in His heart. Then it would not issue from His lips.
    There would not be any hell–except the one we live in from the cradle to the grave.
    There would not be any heaven–the kind described in the world’s Bibles.
    He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when he could have made him happy with the same effort and he would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy.
    – Mark Twain’s Notebook

  • [...] discussed Richard’s Dawkins’ discription of God which lines up with my conclusion and one of the catalysts for my de-conversion: “Jealous and [...]

  • 9. Matt  |  December 5, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    Hello folks: I am a Christian, but I do not believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, does the bible itself even say this. If one takes Timothy 3:16 in proper context, Paul was talking about the Torah. Paul was a man too, not perfect.

    At any rate, I believe in this because I want to. I believe in it because it makes me happy, because it is good for me.

    What I don’t believe in is hell, nor do I think Jesus came to “save” people from Hell. He came to institute God’s kingdom on Earth. A kingdom that is universal, seen in ALL religions, and even seen in agnostic / atheism.

    It’s funny because the universalism doctrine that I follow is considered a heresy, but wasn’t so until the Dark Ages. Further research proves the idea of eternal hellfire was created after Christianity intermingled with Greek Mythology and other pagan religions.

    I still believe in Jesus, and I believe that he came to give us all eternal life, and to teach and show humanity a loving God. IS God Just? Certainly, but the Bible says “Mercy triumphs over Justice” therefore – there is no hell, and the early church knew this.

  • 10. Karen Lindsay  |  November 12, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    nozk7ti1tll40krh

  • 11. soraya Maynes  |  December 11, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    I was raised a chathoic, denied my faith in my early teens, practiced christianity up until graduating from high school. I have been saved many times, forgiven for my sins, read many types of bibles, asked countless questions. Yet I find myself in the same situation. I believe in god with all my heart, but I can’t bring myself to say I believe in the God of the bible. God is assumed perfect, yet in the bible he contradicts himself by becoming a hypocrit. So now here I am back to searching for answers hoping to find a small amount of faith saying it is alright to not believe the words of the bible as long as my heart knows god exsits.

  • 12. LeoPardus  |  December 11, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    soraya Maynes:

    Good luck on your journey/search. Not sure if we can be of help, but please ask if you wish.

    Why do you think a god exists?

  • 13. soraya M.  |  January 9, 2010 at 1:44 am

    LeoPardus: Life is a journey a search to find out anything and everything. The only reason as up to now that I believe in a god is because just a minor glimpse of the human body is an amazing view of its complexities and beauties. I dropped my faith in the bible, finally letting go of my chains. To believe in something that kept me bound was a tragedy. I am an artist at heart mind and soul. I see life so differently, and I imagine a god as well would be just as creative to create humans.

  • 14. Anonymous  |  August 25, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Okay, here it is, can you handle the truth? Who am I? What are we doing here? What is our purpose here? LOL

    You ignoramus pompous over exaggerated bastards of nature, LOL, you are what you are! A cycle in the scheme of things, part of the DNA of the universe that makes it work, you are doing exactly what your suppose to be doing, like a honey bee pollinating flowers, like a plow turning the soil, preparing this environment for what’s next, if you new this and believed it many of you would probley say what’s the use and just kill your selves and we don’t want that to happen do we and that’s why you were given undying hope and the promise of an after life, it keeps you plowing those fields and changing the earth for its next inhabits, just like all the creatures before you, of course some of you had to have a little more intelligence then the ones before you in order to proceed to the next level of things here.
    We have those built in instincts like all creatures here that keep us doing what we were meant to do in this circle or cycle.

    Who am I? I’m no one but a seeker of the truth and not afraid to open my eyes to it, I am what I am and I know it.

    Sorry……………….I know you all hoped for more. Still don’t believe it? LOL, look around you put 2 and 2 together, open your eyes use that more intelligent brain of yours to analyze it.

    You say what is the ultimate goal here? Is there a god? And I ask you! Is there a god of ants or bees or anything else? Good or bad? You say yes we all have the same god, you know what? Bull shit, I am the god of all things that are beneath me, I can give them life and I can give them death I can alter there lives in any way shape or form that I choose, because I am playing the role of what I am suppose to be doing here.

    Understanding the circle of things, circles have no beginnings and have no endings, all things throuout the entire cosmos are comprised of circles and or cycles, it’s not meant to be understood it just is, its how every thing works.

    We as supposed intelligent creatures must give this enigma a name, we call it god.

    Do I believe in god? Hell Yes, I believe in the complete circle of all things that have no beginnings and have no endings, it resides some where in my brain so I called it god.

    Its not a religious thing but it does have a set of moral values to work with, and basically gives me some realistic reasoning’s of things to work with here as well.

    There it is in a nutshell sort of speaking, Thus you have the basics, There is much more thou that can’t be comprehended by our degree of gray mater.

  • 15. Quester  |  August 25, 2010 at 11:12 am

    It’s really the LOLs that make that rant work for me.

  • 16. Joe  |  August 25, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    #14 brought an episode of the Twilight Zone to mind. The one where the two astronauts are temporarily stranded on a planet, and one of them finds a tiny stream with a city filled with tiny people living by it. He gets to be God, until two more aliens arrive who are giants and he gets crushed in the end. I love the Twilight Zone.

  • 17. CheezChoc  |  August 25, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    Oh, that was a good one, Joe!

    It was Claude Akins playing the more reasonable man who went home on the spaceship while his former shipmate stayed there trying to run the place.

  • 18. Joe  |  August 26, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Cheez—

    Yeah—that’t the one! Great episode. I like the one also where the man and wife wake up in a small town with no inhabiitants and can’t remember how they got there. They start realizing everything is fake, even the trees, and every once in a while they hear a giggling voice. It ends up they have been given as “pets” to a giant alien girl by her father, and she has them in her own terrarium of sorts. Great episode too. :)

  • 19. DSimon  |  August 26, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    I still say that you can’t beat the episode where the 10-year-old boy is given god-like power over a town.

    “I’ll send you to the cornfield!” *shudder*

  • 20. Joe  |  August 27, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    DSimon—-

    LOL–that is a great episode for sure. That’s Billy Mumy as the kid—he was also in one where he could call his dead Grandmother on a toy phone and she tells him to run in front of a car, and jump in the fish pool so he can join her. Eerie. :)

  • 21. CheezChoc  |  August 27, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    Mumy was in the TZ three times in the original series and showed up again as the grownup version of the cornfield kid in the 90s/2000s? version.

  • 22. JD  |  November 5, 2010 at 8:58 am

    God is not a man. He is a great and wonderful God. But he is just as terrible as he is wonderful.

    Because He is Holy he must hate what is unholy. Because He is Love he must hate what is not love. when you are the purest form of something, you completely are against the opposite. The bible never contradicts itself. Any contradiction brought up is answered somewhere else. In its entirety is where the answers are. There are many things that seem contradictory but the more you learn about God and begin to know Him, it begins to make sense. The words are just words. The power and revelation is in His spirit.

  • 23. JD  |  November 5, 2010 at 9:00 am

    And also, God cannot be found with Intellect. Ever. We won’t be able to reason Him out. He’s just and holy and we have never been even close to the foothills of these things so how could we even begin to understand?

  • 24. cag  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    JD @22

    The bible never contradicts itself.

    So you really believe that the Earth is the centre of the universe? That the sun and stars revolve around the earth? According to the bible

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    The sun and stars came later, with 5 days dedicated to creating the earth and one day for the rest of the universe. Do you actually believe this? Do you believe that the earth is stationary and all other objects in the universe are subservient to earth? If you do, I would be interested in your explanation for satellites in geostationary orbit.

    As to your posting #23, I fully agree that

    God cannot be found with Intellect.

    Before something can be found, it has to exist.

  • 25. Ubi Dubium  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Gee, we’ve never heard that before!

    You are so sure you know all about your god, yet then you say we can’t reason him out or understand him at all. Make up your mind here. You can’t have it both ways. If he’s so unknowable, then you can’t know anything either.

  • 26. SnugglyBuffalo  |  November 8, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Because He is Love he must hate what is not love.

    Does this mean God has to hate his own hatred of not-love?

  • 27. BigHouse  |  November 8, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    I continue to be amazed at how flaccid the arguments for Yahweh are and how I was duped into it for so long.

  • 28. Levon Swift  |  November 10, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    I went to Lutheran school for 12 years. Now I’m in college to be an English teacher. My parents are hardcore Christians, but I started listening to Bob Dylan in high school and, well, things just went “downhill” in their minds from there. Here’s how I look at it:

    Christians do not believe in Jesus. They believe in the God of the entire Bible, but they make a lot of leaps of faith to get there. If you focus on just Jesus, he seems to be promoting a more compassionate, non-dogmatic way of life than most Christians believe in. Part of it is that they don’t understand how much of what they believe is based on traditions and not on what Jesus actually says and does. The other part of it is that, when it comes to how you should live your life, which is what any religion is about, really, the thing that is important is not whether or not Jesus was God, or whether or not he came back from the dead. The only thing that matters is whether or not the way he says to live is good (Good, in my opinion, meaning loving compassion and hating greed). This is should be the standard for anyone you really “listen” to (any teacher, poet, artist, philosopher, etc.).

  • 29. Levon Swift  |  November 10, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    More clearly – they believe in the Jesus their heavily footnoted copies of the Bible (a book written by a large number of people over a large amount of time, mostly decades after the events actually occurred based on second-hand tales that had previously been transmitted orally (ever play telephone?) that were subsequently copied and translated by a number of different individuals by hand for more than 1000 years in now-dead languages), but they don’t know jack about Historical Jesus, who is someone worth believing in.

  • 30. F. Ellsworth  |  November 16, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Jesus taught his disciples to the effect that: “What ever things you ‘bind’ on earth will be ‘bound’ in heaven.” Also that whatever things they “loose” on earth will be “loosed” in heaven. Strange vocabulary, I know. What does it mean? Well, for some it means that certain priests can forgive your sins. A more likely reading, in my opinion, is that whatever you loose on earth, will be loosed, period.

    In other words, Christianity is going to be whatever you make of it. That puts a lot of responsibility on those who name the name of Christ. Most people would rather have a book or a list of rules that they can point to, than to have to actually think about the implications to humanity of what they teach/believe and do.

    In short, there are many ways to interpret the bible, and there are many ways that Christianity can develop. It really is up to those who call themselves “Christian.” It always has been so, and it always will be until the (real) end comes.

  • 31. Joe Baron  |  November 19, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Although I understand your struggle with understanding that passage of scripture, I think it is rather odd that you have decided that interpretation is whatever you want it to be. If that was true than I can interpret the very words you just wrote as being a death threat to the president. Would that be true? No, of course not. Therefore, interpretation is not simply a matter of choosing what you want things to say, it is a matter of original authorship and intended audience. It keeps in mind that context is king, not simply subjective desire.

  • 32. BigHouse  |  November 19, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    “it is a matter of original authorship and intended audience”

    Ergo, it is impossible to accurately intrepret scripture from where we sit today. Thanks for clearing that up, Joe!

  • 33. phyllis  |  November 20, 2010 at 1:44 am

    Quakers do not believe the Bible as the word of God. It’s a living testimony.

  • 34. anti_supernaturalist  |  November 20, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Good God! You have a “problem” with evil.

    a brief guide to “immoral” gods

    The so-called ‘problem of evil’ always arises when natural disasters — those Acts of God for which insurance will not pay — overwhelm lands and people indiscriminately. Surely, not everyone “deserved” punishment. What’s up with God — the gods — the invisible powers?

    This line of response begs important questions — Why must God be benevolent? Why must the gods be just? Why assume that suffering is punishment? Why does (western) religion demand obedience to an immoral monster? (The very word ‘islam’ means submission.)

    The big-4 monster-theisms, always eager to maintain secular power rush to restore a status quo ante in cases of “unmerited” suffering. To preserve belief in the supernatural, they create a defense — a theodicy — justifying god’s ways to man.

    The god hypothesis — ‘God is good’ — can itself never be questioned. *God’s goodness* is ruled immune from any attempt at disproof. Here lies exposed the root irrationality common to zoroastrianism, post-exilic judaism, xianity, islam.

    gods needed defending long before mega-cults arose

    A very ancient theodicy mixes submission with raw acceptance — the powers act as they will. Their actions are subject to no constraint. This is not the sophomoric view that whatever a god does is right.

    The oldest of divine powers are “beyond good and evil” to use Nietzsche’s sparkling phrase. Categories of ‘good’ and ‘evil’ do not apply to them. The gods of Gilgamesh, Job, and Oedipus for example must be acknowledged and worshiped whatever they do.

    morality does not grow out of religion.

    The truth of a wide separation of morality from religion receives a masterful summary by the eminent classicist, E. R. Dodds [The greeks and the irrational. Berkeley. 1951. pp. 31-32]:

    “I need hardly say [sic!] that religion and morals were not initially interdependent, in Greece or elsewhere; they had their separate roots. I suppose that broadly speaking, religion grows out of man’s relationship to his total environment, morals out of his relation to his fellow men.”

    Breaking a link between ‘god’ and ‘good’ appears impossible to followers of the big-4 so-called great monotheisms. They also want an impossible object of devotion: an all powerful, all knowing, do-gooder. But they are late comers professing irrational doctrines which continually tie them in knots of inconsistency.

    At the core, there are no paradoxes of faith despite Kierkegaard — only necessary falsehoods and conceptual incoherence bound together with unconvincing historical fiction.

    Dead doctrines get manipulated by lying, fraudulent clerics aiming at secular power.

    the anti_supernaturalist

  • 35. jeff  |  March 28, 2011 at 12:54 am

    ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. Jeremiah 10 they nil hier IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move cant speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to tem they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on thier own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be th son of man.‎1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM thier WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiable.

  • 36. Ubi Dubium  |  March 28, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Um… you have a holy book, it says stuff, and says stuff about the other stuff it says. I have a different holy book – it says “get over yourselves”. I’ll stick with mine, thanks.
    (Also – spelling, grammar and punctuation are your friends. Get to know them please.)

  • 37. jeff  |  April 2, 2011 at 4:05 am

    and i say go FUCKING get educated you mroon because your stupid.

  • 38. BigHouse  |  April 2, 2011 at 7:58 am

    And they’ll know we are Christians by our love….

    Or not in jeff’s case.

  • 39. cag  |  April 2, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Jeff is “talking” to himself again.

  • 40. Ubi Dubium  |  April 2, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Perhaps he is. I’m not sure what a “mroon” is. But I’m sure texting and drinking at the same time is a bad idea.

  • 41. Andrew  |  April 4, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    hello my name is Andrew Medina and i do believe that their is a God. he is a God of mercy and grace. it was by through the blood of Jesus Christ that i am saved. the Bible contain many historical information. you can’t even imagine how much facts that the Bible has. not only that, there were so many eyewitnesses during that time. Mr. Dawkins smart or not he know the facts are true but he can’t even explain how the earth existed. the Bible is God breathed. if you have any belief, throw it away there is only one God and He is ruler of all.

  • 42. Brianna  |  April 27, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    I believe in god, I have felt his presence so I know he exist. Yet i Just can’t support this bible. I can’t believe the god I know and love would DAMNED be to hell for being bisexual. According to the bible he would. I also can’t believe god would damn someone for not being a Christian.
    1. What if you were raised another religion. I mean the only reason I am a Christan is because my parents are. With that said, I could have easily been Buddhist had I been born in a different family. How is it fair for punishing someone not to go against their beliefs. I know their is the whole idea if “Everyone hears about Jesus once in their life” but that is bullshit. Christan hear about other religions all their life to but they don’t convert to them. So what makes them believe another person of different faith when then turn around and become Christan?
    2. Who’s to say we are not all worshiping the same “god”? How do we know Ali is not the same as Jesus with just a different name and back story?
    3. The Bible and Religion are built on guilt and fear. I love god with all my hear and soul. I thank him for creating me and giving me the life I have, so why should I fear him?

    But hey what do I know, I am just some 16 year old kid!

  • 43. Ubi Dubium  |  April 27, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    Brianna, for a 16-year-old kid you are on the right track! You are questioning what people have told you that you are supposed to “just believe”. Keep it up. Don’t believe things that don’t make sense to you. Don’t believe things because “everybody else does” or “it’s traditional”. Believe things because you think they are true, because you have evidence that supports that they are true.

    You are asking some of the same questions that a lot of us asked as we started on our path to where we are now. Some of us still believe in a god, a lot of us don’t, but the important thing is to ask the hard questions and demand good answers.

  • 44. Revelation  |  May 6, 2011 at 2:13 am

    brianna, you are not on the right track! you are posting on a board to people who do not believe in the Truth. They want to create their own truth. We seem to like the parts that are comfortable for us to accept and deny the parts we dont necessarily like. We have all wanted the God of “JUST ENOUGH”. The God who will take his people out of Egypt, drown the Roman Soldiers, provide a promised land but uh oh….. you mean God don’t want us having wine and wild orgies…. uh oh now we think we dont like HIM? Remember this …. while you are trying to contend with God, He is trying to contend with you! Try asking your questions to a Presbyterian Church in America. Hey we are all people so we make mistakes okay, If Churches were full of perfect people worshiping perfectly then the book of Revelation would not have carried a message to us about the good and bad practices of the 7 churches to be aware of. Know this….. Not only did Jesus Love You enough to make a way back to God for you….. But God loves you because He made a way back for you to Him! You are not going to afterlife accomadations away from God because you are bi-sexual, look brianna we all will sin in thought word and deed everyday, all of us will, that is why we NEED to realize (not just believe) but realize the Truth that we need to acknowledge Jesus is THE ONLY WAY , THE ONLY TRUTH, AND THE ONLY CHANCE WE HAVE AT A LIFE WITH GOD WHEN WE GIVE UP THESE BODIES WE HAVE.
    Think of it this way, we are a spirit , housed in a body that possesses a soul/mind. The Second death that the bible warns people of is actually an eternity away from God. You choose.
    People want to complain about the bible because they dont understand it. Not all will have ears to hear and eyes to see.
    When you hear the truth explained and can recognize it, you are on the right path. Draw closer to God and He will draw closer to you. Yep, we all want a God of our own making that is convenient like a vending machine, but it dont work that way.
    Pray….. keep your eyes open…. go to biblegateway.com and read some commentaries on the Word of God. Go to a Presbyterian Church in America, look them up on the computer in your area….. PCA ‘s locally. They have the answers to the hard questions and the answers are Good regardless of how they fit into your lifestyle. Christians are being killed because of their belief in Jesus Christ today, go to persecution.org or .com, both websites will open your eyes. Abraham was going to sacrifice issac not ishmeal as the muslims believe. There is one truth and this story of how God provided a lamb was a foreshawdowing of Christ as the lamb….. so much of the bible lines up and dovetails into truth upon truth. Hopefully you will not be on this website any more brianna, leave these Losers alone. I just stumbled upon it today reading a anti mormon post which i actually liked because mormons are not christians.
    an unconvenient truth, but a truth.

  • 45. Ubi Dubium  |  May 6, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Brianna,

    This troll above? Here he is saying “Believe what you are told, I have the only truth, don’t listen to anybody else, and don’t you dare make up your own mind about anything”

    This is the mindset we here have escaped from, and I for one am very pleased not to have any of that rubbish in my life anymore.

    Ask questions. Think for yourself. Anybody who says they have all the answers to life’s questions is full of it. Especially if they claim that all the answers are in some Bronze-Age book.

  • 46. Jin Evans  |  November 29, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    I didn’t have time to read through all the discussion. I just wanted to share my view.

    I always find myself stumbling when I want to fully embrace the concept of Christ. Reading the Bible’s definitely not a good place to start. I felt so resilient, I guess it’s my inner feminism that’s becoming restless. I can’t accept such a biased opinion could come from God. It makes question the credibility of the Bible, and even God.

  • 47. cag  |  December 1, 2011 at 2:19 am

    #46 Jin Evans. Newsflash, imaginary beings do not have credibility. A book of myths and ancient ignorance has no credibility other than as an example of how much our lives have improved due to rationality and science. We are so much better than the bible. The bible is of no value to me or any sane person.

    Preachers are no holier than my dog, but my dog doesn’t lie to me.

  • 48. Rhythm  |  December 16, 2011 at 8:31 am

    This may have been awhile posted but I will add because someone else may be reading as my self.. After 54 years of life and seeing doing and watching. It would be difficult for me to say there is no God. I can not expalin he Earth, breath,Trees Mountains,Oceans, Stars, Children or Even Love. The longer I Live the more I do not know..Do I belive in the Bible.?..Not so much anymore. Yes it is what was taught as a child. However, after so many years on this planet I can honestly say that what my generation was taught has not really proven to be accurate..Even if my Parents said it.. They ment well .I believe that .and so did my Grandparents.Yet my Father always, and I do mean Always ,encourged Thinking for ones self, which in a generation that did not promote Women thinking was a good thing but not with out penalties.. I was taught with knowledge comes responciability. Wow and I see things that maybe some others can not.. I do believe in a Spirit World…thing like EVps lead me to think so. I have never considered my self smart…No, Just average. Yet I have experienced things that could not be explained .Two week before my father died my Deceased Grandmothers voice and spirit kept waking me up night after night saying You need to go home they are comming to get your Dad soon. He died the night I got home.no one knew he was sick. and He didi have a heart attack in his sleep.On Easter Sunday..Now I do not know for sure that has anything to do with anything. However I find it weird….Would make one think.. No doubt. I have found many thing on this earth that do not make sence in referance to what has been taught Via Bible or other things. Science has been a very good tool for weighing out some of it but not all. So this is what I personally have come up with. Maybe the Bible was inspired…But what does Inspired actually mean?”””” aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: an inspired poet.
    2. resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
    3. inhaled: inspired air” . No where in that definition does it Discribe Inspired as a For sure thing ….it is still vauge.No matter what you believe. According to the Bible you have Free Will . And according to the Bible that is actually the Fact. My personal thinking is not one of the Church…Which ever Church you choose..I will not discount any thinking..No matter how strange it might be because I do not Know for certain anything…For all we know Jesus was a space man.For all we know what we are living here on this planet is Hell. It certainly seems that way sometimes. the concept of God. Be it male or Female ( which I think should never matter at all ) is one that beliveves in things bigger than wwe are. Sometimes we can see clearer with our Eyes Wide Shut!. My Answer. Learning any alterantive thinking can only help you grow. Independant thinking does not make you popular..I make you think….And it is Ok to make your own desions/
    That way you took no ones word for it… Forgive any spelling issues. I am Dyslexic.

  • 49. catherine  |  December 17, 2011 at 3:06 am

    I can’t take the bible seriously enough to believe my friends in China and India are doomed and I am not. I Believe if Jesus came to save the world then(seeing as God wants all to be saved) he can choose to save people even if they believe in him or not.! It is in his power to do this if he feels like it! He is God and he can do what he wants!!

  • 50. Anonymous  |  January 8, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    THIS IS NOT A BUFFET LINE. you cant pick and choose your favorite verses of the bible and say “this is what i choose to believe. therefore i am a christian” i have bad news for those people. they are not christians. i love the passages in the bible that talks about Gods love. but the wrath of God is mentioned almost twice as much as his love.

    there is no delima. this is the word of god. you may not think it is fair, you may not like it, you may disagree with it and decide not to believe it. but you cant change it or take it out of context to prove a point.

    i am an ex athiest. i had lived more of a moral life than most christians i knew. i figured i would just lead a good moral life and at the end of the day god would talley it all up and if i did more good than bad then i would be ok. WRONG! i had my beliefs. and instead of searching for the truth i searched for people and religions that supported my beliefs. i finally realized how self righteous i was. i was using people and subscribing to weaker religions to serve me. if you take yourself out of the equation and honestly search hard enough and long enough. if you really do your research it will ultimately dead end into jesus. he says we are all sinners and all sin is equal in the eyes of god. its not up to us to judge which sin is worse or who goes to heaven or hell. that is jesus’ job. and he says on the day of judgement it will be a narrow door and only a few will pass.

    sounds to me like you are judging God. hope it works out for you. if you end up in heaven then life on earth will be the closest to hell you will ever experience. on the other side, if you end up in hell. earth is the closest to heaven you will ever get.

    its written plainly. pick a side.

  • 51. cag  |  January 8, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    Anonymous #50, A book of fiction that categorically claims that the earth was the first object (together with heaven) to be created in the universe is not something to live ones life by. In a way, we are judging gods, with thousands, that is, every god ever created in the minds of humans, being false. Thousands of gods, all imaginary.
    Every time that someone claiming to be an ex atheist, I am very suspicious. You may have been at some time a doubter but I question your definition of atheist. A true atheist requires evidence for gods, not some vague feeling masquerading as research. Come back when you have evidence for heaven and hell – you would be the first person in history to have that evidence, every other believer has just hearsay.

    I don’t have to choose between heaven and hell, just as I don’t have to choose between Superman and Batman. I choose reality.

  • 52. ubi dubium  |  January 10, 2013 at 10:23 am

    …if you end up in heaven then life on earth will be the closest to hell you will ever experience. on the other side, if you end up in hell. earth is the closest to heaven you will ever get.

    And if we are correct that there is no god and no afterlife, then your time on earth is the one and only chance you have to create a life for yourself that is either heavenly or hellish. One chance. I choose not to waste huge amounts of my time and resources on trying to propitiate some imaginary human-created god. I choose to create as much meaning and beauty as I can while I’m here.

    I’m with Cag on this. Between fairy tales and reality, I choose reality.

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Attention Christian Readers

Just in case you were wondering who we are and why we de-converted.

de-conversion wager

Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will have made a positive impact on those around you. If there is a benevolent God reviewing your life, you will be judged on your actions and not just on your ability to blindly believe in creeds- when there is a significant lack of evidence on how to define God or if he/she even exists.

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