The case against teaching the Bible in public schools

March 23, 2007 at 4:22 pm 55 comments

Children’s BibleIn response to Time Magazine’s new cover story “The Case for Teaching The Bible” by David Van Biema, I’d like to simply list a few of the stories and passages our children may be exposed to if the Bible is taught in Public Schools. In other words, let’s let the Bible speak for itself.

Not only will our children learn the beatitudes attributed to Jesus in Matthew, they’ll learn this one:

Psalms 137:8-9 O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed,
Happy is the one who repays you as you have served us!
Happy is the one who takes and dashes
Your little ones against the rock!

Our daughters will learn they are subjected to the boys in their class:

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Our daughters will learn that they next time they go to church, they should not speak:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Our children will learn that if parents do not obey God, he will send wild animals to kill their children:

Deuteronomy 26:21-22 ” ‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

They will learn the if parents do not obey God, he will cause them to eat the flesh of their children:

Deuteronomy 26:27-29 ” ‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.

Our sons will learn that they should be stoned to death for rebellion:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. And they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

Our children will learn that if they mock their teachers, God may send bears to maul them:

2 Kings 2:23-24 Then [Elisha] went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

Our children will learn about all the genocides in the Bible sanctioned or commited by God including this one:

Genesis 6:17-23 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. Every living thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

(quite a great image for our children to meditate on, isn’t it?)

And finally, they’ll learn that the next time their parents go to church, they may not return if they lie to their leaders:

Acts 5:1-11 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.”

When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?” “Yes,” she said, “that is the price.” Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

Please note that this is a very small sample of what I consider to be the multitude of atrocities in the Bible.

While somewhat acknowledging in the article that the “Bible’s harmful as well as helpful uses must be addressed,” in his closing statement, David Van Biema writes:

And, oh yes, there should be one faith test. Faith in our country. Sure, there will be bumps along the way. But in the end, what is required in teaching about the Bible in our public schools is patriotism: a belief that we live in a nation that understands the wisdom of its Constitution clearly enough to allow the most important book in its history to remain vibrantly accessible for everyone.

Patriotism? I’m not as optimistic as this author. The issue I have with teaching the Bible is that it will depend greatly on the teacher how it’s portrayed. If the teacher is a religious conservative, these scriptures will be portrayed as the Word of God. If the children are of conservative Christian homes, they’ll simply accept this as God’s Word.

If this is a risk you’re willing to take, please support teaching the Bible to children in the public schools. If not, let’s start a blogging revolution against this concept.

- The de-Convert

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Is Christianity for peace? I found out what is wrong with Christianity: It’s been Feminized!

55 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Simen  |  March 23, 2007 at 2:18 pm

    Why not? Children deserve to know that Christianity isn’t all just love and peace. Jesus wasn’t just an early hippy. Yahweh wasn’t very nice at all.

  • 2. stellar1  |  March 23, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    My opposition to the Bible being taught in Public Schools is twofold. One, it encourages a patriarchal system that assumes a lower religious, social and political position for women. Two, not everyone in America is Christian and such an act would be forcing one religious teaching on everyone. Religious freedom is a hallmark of American society.

  • 3. Simen  |  March 23, 2007 at 6:26 pm

    The only reason to teach any religion in schools is to show their historical and current impact on the world and encourage understanding and communication between different groups The Bible obviously shouldn’t be taught because it’s the “right” book; if it should be taught at all, it must be taught because of its historical and current impact on society.

  • 4. agnosticatheist  |  March 23, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    Simen,

    I do think that we’re still primarily a “Christian” nation and as a result, I do not trust how the Bible will be portrayed. I know the author said that’s it should be optional but I’ve come to the belief that religion is a personal issue and is best dealt with outside of our public schools. I’m ok with teaching how religion has impacted society or teaching the myths of religion and their basic construct but this is framed we should allow the Bible to be “vibrantly accessible for everyone.”

    Here’s another quote from the referenced article:

    According to Religious Literacy, polls show that nearly two-thirds of Americans believe the Bible holds the answers to “all or most of life’s basic questions,” but pollster George Gallup has dubbed us “a nation of biblical illiterates.” Only half of U.S. adults know the title of even one Gospel. Most can’t name the Bible’s first book. The trend extends even to Evangelicals, only 44% of whose teens could identify a particular quote as coming from the Sermon on the Mount.

    So what? I’m not a very religious person

    SIMPLY PUT, THE BIBLE IS THE MOST influential book ever written. Not only is the Bible the best-selling book of all time, it is the best-selling book of the year every year.

    I don’t believe the public schools is the place to fix Bible illiteracy. In fact, it’s a problem that I do not believe needs to be fixed if it is to support Biblical views.

  • 5. Marcus  |  March 23, 2007 at 11:10 pm

    I think the Bible should be studied in schools, I agree with Simen here, because most people have never read the Bible!
    If they have the chance to do so, they will see that by following the Bible, we should all be homicidal maniacs.
    Of course, Bible study should be done from an impartial point of view and students should be encouraged to read all the parts of the Bible, not only the nicest verses.
    That would be a true revolution…

  • 6. Jennifer  |  March 24, 2007 at 6:24 am

    I would have to see the textbooks, and approve the curriculum. I have to agree that I’m afraid this is just another wedge policy from the Christian Right trying to slip religious propaganda into our public schools. I don’t have a problem with teaching what the bible as historical literature, but how realistic is it that that will happen?

  • 7. Wanda  |  April 23, 2007 at 10:24 pm

    The Bible is the inspired Word of God, and should be taught in the Church by believers. The Koran and Torah should be taught to those who follow their teachings. There is a time for everything. A Christian

  • 8. jsummer  |  August 25, 2007 at 10:09 am

    Is it not astounding how so many are so learned and educated that they can “play God” with all the comments and diatribes I have read on this. The fact is, “Natural man receiveth not the things of God neither can he know them for they are foolishness unto him”-look it up in they new testament since all you unbelievers think you know how to pick and choose what verses will back up your arguments. I can assure you that “No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the holy ghost” is true in the book of II Peter (It is interesting to note that the root greek word for ‘private interpretation’ is idios….we get the word ‘idiot’ from this!). Try this on for intelligence, my learned atheists and agnostics- there have been over 4000 translations in hundreds of languages since that time for the Word of God. Since God probably did it right the first time in revelation to ‘holy men’, he also probably followed his own words in giving us all freedom of will to believe it or not; it is our privilege to decide to BELIEVE or not. It is NOT our right to rewrite, distort, change to fit our need or lifestyle, or omit sections of the bible that we do not care for. As for all the scripture quoted in this article, sir, your ignorance on the bible is astounding. If you want to speak with authority, then get a reality check. First, read Romans 15:4 to see that the old testament is there for our learning, not written TO us in this, the age of grace. Second, try to get a little more accurate translation to work with likje maybe King James, or Greek, or Aramaic-that watered down garbage you are quoting was printed for Americans who do not believe in II Timothy 2:15 (look it up-we are to STUDY THE BIBLE TO BE APPROVED BEFORE GOD, not attend church regularly, light candles, wear robes, chant, or do any other works to get into heaven). Third, try looking at the bible as Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth; maybe you will come to a knowledge of the truth instead of relishing the actions of worshipping parts of the creation over the creator.

  • 9. Euthyphro  |  November 29, 2007 at 1:00 am

    The Bible has as much place in schools as other historical literature, as long as it is taught as such. Should students be shielded from other classic literature which depicts violence or promotes controversial ancient ideologies? Say goodbye to the works of Homer. Forget about Plato. Where do you draw the line?

  • 10. Quester  |  December 15, 2007 at 3:24 am

    In what public school have you been reading Homer and Plato?

  • 11. Christoff  |  December 18, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    The Bible is interesting, and valuable to study
    as History, as Myth, as Literature. I firmly believe that a stronger emphasis should be placed on the study of the Bible and the stigma associated with it by secular peoples who argue against it on religious grounds.

    Children in public school, however, do not study, they learn. There is no way to allow the Bible to be taught to children without risking impartiality from teachers. The Bible does contain morality stories, but the state of religion in this country is such that there would be serious confusion in a child’s mind.
    For example

    Teacher: And then God told Noah–
    Little Sammy: Like he spoke from the sky?
    Teacher: Yes
    Little Sammy: Is God real?
    Teacher: …….

    High school is an excellent opportunity to study the Bible. A teenager is capable of reading the Bible objectively, whatever their background. They could be tested on content, as one would be for any other book, write essays about the interpretations of the Book of Isaiah, and compare Flood Myths among several religions. This is good educational, with profound real world meaning.

    I would be amused if this system became popular, because I imagine religion would decline, and parents would still blame the teachers.

    (message on Bible in schools ends here, the following is me basically laying into Christianity, read at your will, but thanks for getting this far)

    To “Jsummer” who writes, “First, read Romans 15:4 to see that the old testament is there for our learning, not written TO us in this, the age of grace.”

    This is true, but the LEARNING is still representative of what God supposedly is. It is supposedly literal history, and I don’t think that the definition of God supports an entity that changes his opinions over time. What he presents himself as is a petty and bigoted dictator. Sure, all we need to do is “STUDY THE BIBLE AND TO BE APPROVED BEFORE GOD”, but his standards are the same as the guy who required his followers to isolate menstruating women and who got off on animal sacrifice and public stonings.

    Jesus was a cool dude, very similar to some of the greatest human beings that we actually do have proof of, but I can’t help but think that his dad must have been pretty pissed off at him. That’s probably why he had him crucified.

  • 12. Joe  |  December 19, 2007 at 2:12 am

    Ok fine teach it as you would the Greek gods, Roman gods, Egyptian gods AS A MYTH. Mentioning some of the high points as they relate to literature is fine, but you’ve really got to clearly state that belief in this stuff is just another superstition. In reality it has had an effect on our history, but let’s not overstate it’s importance. People may use it as atool, but they are driven by much more simple motives than superstition/

  • 13. TheDeeZone  |  December 19, 2007 at 4:11 am

    The de-Convert,

    I have taught Bible in Christian middle school & high schools. Aside from the beatuitudes most of the passages you mentioned were not covered in our curriculum and certainily would not be taught on an elementary level.

    Teaching Bible in a public school is something I have not supported in the past. Recently, I heard about the Bible Literacy project. It is a high school level and seeks to teach the Bible as history and litature.

    As a Christian my major opposition to teaching the Bible or Christianity in public schools is that if the Bible were taught then equal time would have to be given for the Qaran or other holy books. Since I would not want my child to be forced to study Islam or Hinduism. I must then assume that Muslim or Hindu would have a similar postion.

  • 14. LeoPardus  |  December 19, 2007 at 12:45 pm

    My friends and workmates from the UK all tell me about the Bible being taught in school.

    My friends and relatives from Scandinavia all tell me about the Bible being taught in school.

    The UK, Sweden, and Denmark have some of the lowest church attendance and highest “self identified atheist” percentages in the world.

    If diminishing Christianity is anyone’s goal, I say, “Go with what’s been proven to work.”

  • 15. TheDeeZone  |  December 31, 2007 at 10:55 am

    The de-Convert,

    The passages you mentioned are not the types that would be covered in the course I refered to in my blog. It deals with the major Bible narratives as well as reading works by Milton, Shakespear and others that reference them.

    DH

  • 16. The de-Convert  |  December 31, 2007 at 11:26 am

    Dee,

    Teaching the Bible as narrative and examining the different types of literature etc. in the Bible is a fantastic teaching tool. It is, after all, a very fascinating book. The issue that comes into play, that is hard to separate for so many, is when they view it as “God’s Word” and believe it carries a certain weight that it doesn’t. It is a great book for it’s time with great stories, tragedies, myths, etc. If viewed in that light, it’s actually quite an impressive work.

    Paul

  • 17. silentj  |  September 29, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    RE: folks concerned about teaching the Bible with impartiality.

    We have laws in place that do not allow teachers to say one political view is better than another or to endorse candidates publicly. However, we still teach politics and discuss the issues.

    We can teach the Bible and remain impartial. The Bible is the single most influential piece of literature in U.S. history. We should include it in the curriculum, monitoring how it’s taught just like we would politics, sexuality, or any other potentially dangerous topic.

  • 18. silentj  |  September 29, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    sorry… that last post should say “endorse candidates in public schools.”

    By the way, there are similar laws already in place for teaching in religion in public schools.

  • 19. Bryan  |  January 16, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    this proves that you’re an idiot and you don’t know anything about the bible or christianity

    i don’t think we shoul teach teh bible in school….but only because people should have freedom to choose

  • 20. BigHouse  |  January 16, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Another country heard from!

    Care to elaborate on your vaguely-pointed vitriol, Bryan

  • 21. SnugglyBuffalo  |  January 16, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    If you’re going to call someone an idiot, try not to do idiotic things yourself, like failing to use proper punctuation, spelling, and capitalization, or failing to proofread your post before clicking the submit button.

    Though you get points for using “you’re” instead of “your.”

  • 22. LeoPardus  |  January 16, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    Bryan:

    Lack of capitalization, spelling, proofreading, good syntax all seem evidence that the idiot is you.

    And thanks for being such a fine example of what a Christian really is. An arrogant, bad-tempered, acid-tongued, hate-filled shit.

    You really know how to show the “love of Christ”. What a great ambassador for the Lord you are.

  • 23. A CHRISTIAN  |  January 31, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    “JSUMMER”….I ttly agree with EEVVEERRYTTHHIINNGG u said, u blessed my soul for today, for real!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!…And to the author of all this jibberish…God Bless U Too!!!!—We Can’t do nothing but pray for you and all the other ones who are not believers, like JSUMMER said it’s ur choice!!!!!

  • 24. orDover  |  January 31, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    Poe?

  • 25. Ubi Dubium  |  January 31, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    Gotta be.

  • 26. CheezChoc  |  February 1, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Man…is everybody degenerating into text/IM-speak these days?

  • 27. angelica  |  May 7, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    the bible should only be taught along side other “holy” books and other religions to give kids an understanding of whats out there, because christianity, islam buddhism and many other religions played a huge part in history. Now, an understand should be taught but in no way should the book be taught as fact or as the one true religion. all religions should be covered equally from an unbiased viewpoint.

  • 28. Dez  |  May 15, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    I live in a small and fairly conservative area in the US and during my senior year of high school, a few years ago, we had an “Ancient Jewish and Greek Literature” class. I signed up for it knowing it was going to include reading passages from the bible. I had been non-theistic since I was about 12, but I was excited to read the bible from a non-religious standpoint. While I read the book with the mind of a skeptic, many of my peers in that class did not. It started out as a mostly non-biased class, but as the semester went on, the teacher’s bias became more and more clear (one day we got to hear his story about him speaking in tongues). I wasn’t overly comfortable with discussing my beliefs in that class, with the clear evidence that I was either the only non-christian, or one of a small minority of silent sufferers. I learned a lot in that class, but at the price of feeling condemned by my peers and teacher. I don’t believe that the bible can be covered fairly in school in this day and age with so many people who feel very strongly about it one way or another.

  • 29. TheDeeZone  |  May 15, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    Dez,

    As a Christian and former high school Bible teacher I have problems with your teacher’s discussion of speaking in tongues. I do not believe that is appropriate in a high school class period.

  • [...] The case against teaching the Bible in public schools [...]

  • 31. Lucy  |  August 12, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    PEOPLE,LOOK AT THE BEHAVIOR IN KIDS SINCE THE PRAYER & THE BIBLE WAS REMOVED FROM SCHOOLS. HOW CAN ANY OF YOU DENY THAT FACT.
    AS FAR AS ATHEIST,OR THOSE THAT DONT BELIEVE IN SPEAKING IN TONGUES, I WISH YOU WOULD VISIT A CHURCH OF GOD,CHURCH & IF YOU WILLINGLY LISTEN TO THE SERMON,I BET YOUR KNEES WILL KNOCK,BECAUSE YOU CAN FEEL THAT THE LORD IS IN THE HOUSE,AND MAYBE YOU WILL BE THE UNBELIEVER,LIKE WE SEE SO OFTEN AT CHURCH,THAT WILL SPEAK IN TONGUES & RUN AROUND THE CHURCH LIKE YOUR ON FIRE!!!!
    JUST TRY IT ,ONCE,BEFORE YOU DOUBT IT.

  • 32. Joe  |  August 12, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    Lucy—

    When reading your post all in caps, the picture of a woman with a huge beehive haircut, horn-rimmed glasses and holding a bullhorn comes to mind. :>)

  • 33. Joe  |  August 12, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    Lucy—

    Just kidding—-but when you are in all caps you are considered to be shouting. Unless that’s what you intended. :>)

  • 34. Joshua  |  August 12, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    OMG, TYPING EVERYTHING IN ALL CAPS CONVINCED ME!!!!

    GAH!!111oneoneone

  • 35. LeoPardus  |  August 12, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    Lucy:

    Been to a Church of God more than once. It saddened me to see all those people whipping themselves into psychosomatic frenzies in an effort to “feel” their god. This was back when I was a believer. I must say that it still saddens me just as much.

    What happens at your church is mass hysteria.

  • 36. LeoPardus  |  August 12, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Oh and on the “it was so much better in times past” idea that you posit: Actually go study history. Read primary, first-hand accounts. You’ll find that schools, clubs, churches, towns, married life, etc were not all better in the “good old days”.

    Mind you, to learn these things, you have to read beyond the stuff you read now. You can’t just read materials that you know before hand will simply support your preconceptions.

  • 37. Joshua  |  August 12, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    You’ll find that schools, clubs, churches, towns, married life, etc were not all better in the “good old days”.

    Ecclesiastes 7:10

    Do not say, Why is it that the former days were better than these? For it is not from wisdom that you ask about this.

  • 38. Lucy  |  August 12, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    I dont need any info,I dont need to study.I know who my God is,and I feel sorry for those of you who judge and make fun of any kind of worship.I will be praying for people like you all. Have you ever thought that when you stand before Jesus and He says “I never knew you”,because you want to follow the world instead of Him. There is nothing bad about the bible or God or the way people worship. Most of you who are making fun and are against any of it,probably are not saved & attending church,or you are & you’ve backslid.Believe what you want,but at the end I hope we’ll all meet in Heaven. One last thing,their is a difference in childrens behavior,they dont respect anybody,they’ve become lazy,their exposed to sex,drugs,weapons,their killing each other,face it ,its the truth,everything that this country has taken God out of has fallen completely apart.I will pray for all of you,I hate that so many of you are blinded by the evil in the world.

  • 39. Quester  |  August 12, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    You don’t need info, you don’t need to study, and you don’t need to waste our time with your insults and ignorance. Move along, Lucy. Move along.

    Joshua (@35), I’ll have to remember that Bible quote. *grin*

  • 40. Joshua  |  August 13, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    You don’t need info, you don’t need to study, and you don’t need to waste our time with your insults and ignorance.

    Wait, I thought ignorant people needed information? This statement makes my head hurt.

    Joshua (@35), I’ll have to remember that Bible quote. *grin*

    A common attitude among Christians is that our country is “getting away” from its Christian roots and that things are getting worse in preparation for the end times…

    !=

    The major “sign’ of “end times” prophecy is that things will get worse. But… wait… I thought it was not wise to say things were getting worse.

    Contradiction Alert!

  • 41. Joshua  |  August 13, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    I will be praying for people like you all.

    Speaking of ignorance and insults. I love how “I’ll be praying for you” can turn into a condescending term of disgust and revile.

    Love, love, love, they will know we are Christians by our love!

  • 42. Quester  |  August 13, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Joshua,

    Ignorant people *lack* information. They don’t *need* information, unless they want the benefits of a worldview that more closely reflects reality. That help your head any?

  • 43. LeoPardus  |  August 13, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Lucy:

    I dont need any info,I dont need to study.

    Well in a way this is refreshing. A frank admission that ignorance and a flat refusal to learn or use one’s brain is good for one’s religion/superstition. And your incredibly bad grammar from here on out shows that you really live by this standard.

    Have you ever thought that when you stand before Jesus and He says “I never knew you”,because you want to follow the world instead of Him.

    Have you ever though? At all?

    But more to the point, have you ever thought that you only believe in what you do because you weren’t born in Greece a couple millennia or so ago? …or born in Africa? … or born into a JW or LDS family?

    Somehow, simply because of the mere accident of when and where you were born and raised, you think you have the ULTIMATE answers. Can you be any more arrogant? …… Does your Bible say anything about arrogance (hint: ‘pride’ is a synonym)?

    There is nothing bad about the bible or God or the way people worship.

    Really?! First off, have you actually read the Bible? I mean from cover to cover, without missing a word? (Over 75% of “christians” have not, so you’re in good company.)

    Are you OK with deities who kill babies for the sins of their parents?

    Are you OK with parents who let their kids die because they won’t seek medical care?

    Are you OK with people who burn members of their own community because they have been branded as witches? (It still happens today in case you didn’t know.)

    Most of you who are making fun and are against any of it, probably are not saved & attending church,or you are & you’ve backslid.

    Only took you two posts to get to a “convenient category”. Nice going.

    One last thing,their is a difference in childrens behavior,they dont respect anybody,they’ve become lazy,their exposed to sex,drugs,weapons,their killing each other,face it ,its the truth,everything that this country has taken God out of has fallen completely apart.

    Given your admitted ignorance could it possibly be that you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about? Have you ever read any primary, historical document? Can you even name an historical movement from before 1965? A social, political, religious, moral movement…??

    Can even imagine what it’s like to actually study history? To learn for yourself instead of regurgitating what you’ve been spoon fed?

    I hate that so many of you are blinded by the evil in the world.

    I hate the way that you are blinded by unconscionable ignorance compounded by deliberate stupidity.

  • 44. Lucy  |  August 13, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    I have the internet,I read about the history all the time & yes I’ve read my bible from one end to the other,read books from the bible every day.All of you sound so angry.And no I dont think my way is the only way,but it sure is a good way,there is peace in my life,and I have a list a things that God has done,that no man could ever do.

    Why is that the bible cant be taught in school,why does it have to be your way,why cant we try our way & see what happens.I know people & children have been cruel since time started,but it has got progressively worse & everyone can see it(so I thought) . Maybe some of you should do some research.

    When I first came to this website I did not know it was for atheist’s, Im sorry for starting something,I had no intention on making all of you mad,I was just trying to bring you to God,In my heart I just felt like I needed to,I used to be that “christian” that is labeled the meanest people there is,but I changed,alot! Im not trying to make you believe the way I do,I just wanted you to at least think about it. I read alot of stuff on this website, I tried to see it from everyone’s point of view,some of it did make sense to me. I’ve had a couple of times where I wondered where God was,like this past Christmas,my kids didnt receive one present,that really had me messed up for a while.So I understand how you can get hurt or confused. But I think Im not ever coming back to this website again,because the way some of you talk,its not discussing,its just putting down everybody & what they believe,maybe its your way thats not right,who knows.Maybe its mine,but Im happy,so I’ll die happy believing the way I do. I personally wish all of you would not get so angry at other religions,Im not mad at any of yours.
    So good luck with your lives,and I hope that what ever you believe in works for you.

  • 45. Joshua  |  August 13, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    I have the internet,I read about the history all the time & yes I’ve read my bible from one end to the other

    I’ve read the Bible at least 10 times and nearly memorized a couple books. I have the internet and I read about history too.

    All of you sound so angry.

    Maybe we have good reason to be.

    And no I dont think my way is the only way

    I think you would help yourself out a little by thinking about this statement :)

    but it sure is a good way

    Many of us would beg to differ, which is why we expose Christianity and help those who are leaving.

    there is peace in my life

    Excellent! Be happy Lucy :)

    and I have a list a things that God has done,that no man could ever do.

    So do we.

    Why is that the bible cant be taught in school

    Who should teach it?

    why does it have to be your way,why cant we try our way & see what happens

    Because it was already tried “your way”. It’s called the Dark Ages, hon.

    but it has got progressively worse & everyone can see it(so I thought)

    Ecclesiastes 7:10

    Do not say, Why is it that the former days were better than these? For it is not from wisdom that you ask about this.

    Lucy, things are actually better now than they used to be. Yes, life still sucks. It always has and always will, but do a little historical research on life expectancy, mortality rates, and murder rates in the last 1000 years.

    Religions like to teach that things are getting worse because this scares people into believing more. If you wanted to start a religion, wouldn’t you want to scare people into joining if you could not prove that your religion was true?

    And this just might be why some of us are angry at religions: they stifle the truth and actually keep things from getting better :)

    Just a difference in opinion? Maybe. Or maybe we are ten steps ahead. Which is we this site is called de-conversion.com.

  • 46. Joshua  |  August 13, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    And by “we” I am not referring to everyone on the site :) Just want to clarify that I can only directly speak for myself.

  • 47. Joe  |  August 13, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    From Monty Python Life of Brian (paraphrase):

    Leader of Jewish Liberation Front: “I’m glad you’re all here. Today we are here to organize our protest against the Roman Tyrannists. What have the Romans ever done for us??”

    Man in back: “They gave us pretty good plumbing sir”.

    Leader: “OK, plumbing. But besides plumbing, what have the Romans ever done for us???”

    Man in back: “They built pretty good roads sir. We eat a lot better now that the food can be delivered to us”.

    Leader: “OK, plumbing and roads and more food. But besides that, what have the Romans done for us??”

    Man in back: “They’ve given us better schools and an appreciation of art sir.”

    Something about the above discussion made me think of this from the movie. :>)

  • 48. Anonymous  |  March 19, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Simen,
    Bible will not be a require class if taught in public schools. It will be an elective class, which means student will have a choice to take it or not take it. So therefore it will be not forced upon the students.

  • 49. CheezChoc  |  March 19, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    Would it be cool with everyone if we also had the Koran taught in schools, requiring the learning of Arabic?
    How about other religious texts?

    Just asking.

  • 50. Eve's Apple  |  March 21, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Lucy (in case you haven’t gone away)–

    One of the problems in the Christian-non-Christian debate is that all too often the Christian is stereotyped as being uneducated and ignorant. I would strongly suggest that you put as much effort into learning English grammar and spelling as you do learning the Blble. I am not saying this to be mean. I am saying that when a Christian does not take the time to learn how to use written English correctly, it sends a very powerful NEGATIVE message to the rest of us.

    It may seem like a small thing, but I for one am not impressed by arguments made by someone who sounds like they are only half-literate. Which is a shame, because I consider the King James Bible to be one of the treasures of English literature. The people who translated it cared enough for their native language to craft a masterpiece, whatever else one might think of it. I would say that it deserves far, far better than a semi-literate argument in its favor!

  • 51. Anonymous  |  October 26, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    Wouldn’t you want the children to know the truth? Life is not fairy tales. We were given our children as gift from God. He wants us to inform them so then they can make a choice for themselves. This is our job and It is a big responsibility! When you get to the end of your life and find this is truth you wish you hadn’t gone against God’s word. The door is always open as long as there is time, and God has not turned away from you. Repent of your sin and believe Jesus died for your sins. He will forgive you and change your heart. He is a loving and forgiving God. These are things our children need to know. When the time is right God will reveal all the rest to them when they are ready. That is His job. It is obvious in those scriptures that God is serious about what He says. We should take heed. I am praying for your heart to be opened.

  • 52. cag  |  October 27, 2013 at 12:56 am

    Anonymous # 51, what a load of BS. You have bought into the biggest lie ever. This site is for adults, not people who believe childish nonsense. The people who belong here are not convinced by the lies in scriptures.

  • 53. Vizari Cleats  |  September 25, 2014 at 11:14 am

    Vizari Cleats

    The case against teaching the Bible in public schools | de-conversion

  • 54. aroma rice cooker  |  September 25, 2014 at 12:25 pm

    aroma rice cooker

    The case against teaching the Bible in public schools | de-conversion

  • 55. Samsonite 5 piece nested luggage set  |  September 26, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    Samsonite 5 piece nested luggage set

    The case against teaching the Bible in public schools | de-conversion

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Attention Christian Readers

Just in case you were wondering who we are and why we de-converted.

de-conversion wager

Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will have made a positive impact on those around you. If there is a benevolent God reviewing your life, you will be judged on your actions and not just on your ability to blindly believe in creeds- when there is a significant lack of evidence on how to define God or if he/she even exists.

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