Using the Bible to support Hinduism

April 10, 2007 at 2:22 pm 41 comments

HinduismI had a bit of fun with this one. On Stellar1′s blog, “Christianity and the Role of Women – A Woman’s Place,” a blogger, harryagaylord, posted some comments in defense of the Bible’s view of women. As I do quite often, I clicked his name and browsed his blog Sun & Shield and came across this blog: A quick comparison between Hinduism and Christianity.

After reading it, I decided to have a bit of fun with it. Here’s his blog with my comments:

Hinduism originated in India and cannot be traced back to a single individual who started it. It is a religion that began before Christ came to earth and is a conglomeration of various beliefs from Aryans who migrated to India mixed with the beliefs of indigenous people of India. Its teachings may differ from sect to sect of the religion, but here are some of its basic teachings compared to the truth that we learn from God’s word:

You have to love the statement “the truth that we learn from God’s Word.” :) Well, Harry, you are correct in the Hinduism is a religion that began before Christ. What you should have also mentioned is that it began before Judaism. It is generally believed that the earliest elements of Hinduism dates back to 3300 B.C.E or before. Moses, on the other hand, probably lived somewhere around 1500 B.C.E.

Harry then goes into comparing Hinduism to the Bible:

  • Hinduism teaches that life is an endless cycle of rebirths (reincarnation) where all living things die in one bodily form but return in a different bodily form.
  • The word of God says in Hebrews 9:27 “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”

Actually, Harry, the Bible also teaches reincarnation. In Matthew 11 & 17, Jesus referred to John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah.

  • According to Hindu teachings, men are in need of salvation from reincarnation to become gods and this salvation can only be obtained by ceremonial works such as yoga or having a guru assigned to you.
  • God’s word says man is in need of salvation from his sins and this salvation can only come by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Furthermore, those who are saved will one day receive a resurrection body that will make them equal to the angels (Luke 20:36). Man will never be a god.

Harry, it’s interesting to note that James, the brother of Jesus, wrote an entire book to show that the statement “salvation can only come by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ” is false.

  • Gurus are a little lower than a god, according to Hinduism.
  • The Bible says man is a little lower than the angels (Psalm 8:4,5; Hebrews 2:6-9).

Actually the Bible in Psalms 8:5 says “Elohim” or God NOT angels as you quoted.

  • Hinduism is polytheistic.
  • The Bible says there is only one God (Ephesians 4:5-6).

Christianity is also polytheistic: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all God. Jesus was on earth while claiming God was in heaven. He prayed to God and he talked about God as a separate being to himself. The “mystery” of the Trinity does not really hide this fact. It’s simply a smokescreen so that Christians can believe Jesus is God yet believe the scriptures about there only being one God. It’s quite ingenious actually.

  • Hinduism promotes a caste system where some people are considered superior to others and are treated better.
  • God’s word says having respect of persons (showing favoritism) based on one’s socioeconomic status or any other worldly status is evil (James 2:1-9).

The Bible 100% supports this caste system. Read the Old Testament and see how the Jews were so much better than everyone around them. In fact, they were forbidden to inter-marry and in many cases even associate with others. Jesus himself called a Canaanite woman a dog.

  • Hinduism says there is no absolute truth; truth is subjectively based on what each individual believes.
  • Jesus said God’s word is the truth (John 17:17) and anything opposed to God or his word is evil (Deuteronomy 13:1-5; 18:20-22).

The reality is most Christians also do not believe in absolute truth. In fact, the beliefs of Christianity have evolved over time. Do women speak in church? Absolutely! Is it ok to marry a divorced woman? Absolutely! However, these are practices strictly forbidden in the Bible.

  • Hinduism has Brahmans who are religious leaders that use astrology to direct their followers’ lives.
  • Yahweh is against diviners and observers of times (Deuteronomy 18:10-14).

The Bible also supports astrology. The central story of the New Testament, the birth of Christ, has the wise men following a star to the birth of Christ. Obviously there’s some truth to astrology since they were dead on right about the birth of Christ, which they learned of from the stars.

So Harry, I do not believed you proved that Hinduism is evil since many of the reasons you listed are also supported in the Bible. Care to give it a second shot?

Actually the real purpose of this blog is to demonstrate that one can prove almost anything using the Bible. This is why there are so many different denominations. I know some of my interpretation of scripture above is a stretch but it’s no different than is done in most churches.

- The de-Convert

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41 Comments Add your own

  • 1. agnosticatheist  |  April 10, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    Obviously, you do not have a clear understanding of trinitarian monotheism since you consider Christianity polytheistic. In fact, theologians do not even consider Hinduism polytheistic. It is monistic. Look it up.

    BTW, this whole idea that you have all these multiple “gods” within a “Godhead” and yet be ONE God is a bit of a stretch for the imagination. If you think about it logically, it just does not make sense. To say that Hinduism is monotheistic is a giant leap of faith.

    Which is, you are uninformed in the opinions you espouse as absolutes. I guess I did. But I didn’t know that was your point.

    Actually, I think de-Convert was quoting Harry with the misinformation on Hinduism. His loose interpretation of the Bible was recognized in d-C’s closing statement but who is to say that he is wrong? BTW, where did you get the opinion that d-C’s tongue-and-cheek interpretations of Bible passages were absolutes? Personally, I believe they are as flawed as the source – which I think was d-C’s point…. that you can show just about anything using the Bible. Why would an omnipotent, omniscient, infinite God write such a confusing book?

  • 2. storbakken  |  April 10, 2007 at 3:19 pm

    The great thing about blogs is that any person can spout their opinions regardless of how skewed and uninformed they are, per your example in this post.

    The Aryas, who came over the Hindu Kush from what is currently known as Iran, were not Hindus. There religion was more closely related to Zoroastrianism and the Mithra cult. The Aryas’ ideas are espoused in the Vedas, which are monistic. The indigenous people of India were pushed south by the Arya and eventually they formed a syncretic religion. The Aryas can be compared to the Romans and the Dravidians (indigenous Indians) can be compare to the Greeks, in that the Arya were a highly legalistic and developed civilization and the Dravidians were more artistic and fantastic in their belief system.

    Obviously, you do not have a clear understanding of trinitarian monotheism since you consider Christianity polytheistic. In fact, theologians do not even consider Hinduism polytheistic. It is monistic. Look it up.

    Regarding Elijah’s “incarnation”, you are mistaken. But it is an easy mistake. When I was practicing Hinduism in India at the age of 19 I was reading the Bible in an effort to discredit it. I came across this passage and thought that I had found a verse to support reincarnation and thus give more credit to Hinduism. But as I dug deeper I came to understand that there are various types (or as Jung called them, archetypes) in the Bible. David, Joshua and Melchizedek were types of Christ in the Bible, but they were not the Christ. They pointed to him. If you read those verses in Matthew you will see that it says that John came in the “spirit and power” of Elijah. It doesn’t say that John was Elijah in another life.

    I could continue deconstructing this post, but I think my comment is already too long. Blessings and more fire!

  • 3. agnosticatheist  |  April 10, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    storbakken,

    Precisely! You supported the point of the post :)

    aA

  • 4. storbakken  |  April 10, 2007 at 3:29 pm

    Which is, you are uninformed in the opinions you espouse as absolutes. I guess I did. But I didn’t know that was your point.

  • 5. storbakken  |  April 10, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    I did not say Hinduism is monotheistic. It is monistic. Monism is different than monotheism. Like I said, look it up.

    More fire, more light, more revelation!

  • 6. Anonymous  |  May 30, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    Very interesting discussion. The more we discuss these things in depth, the more we will see no religion, no culture; no country can proclaim monopoly over God and Truth. God and Truth are universal.

    GOD

    According to Hindu scriptures,

    There is One and Only God Brahman which expresses itself in trillions of forms.

    According to Holy Bible, there is only One God and that God is Jehovah.

    TRINITY:

    Hindus worship that God in many forms. HINDU TRINITY concept came from Puranas. Hindu Trinity is 1. Brahma – God of creation 2. Vishnu – God of preservation 3. Siva – God of destruction. In this regard they are called Sat-Tat-Aum, the Being, the immanence and the Word or Holy Spirit.

    There is no word TRINITY in the 66 books of the Holy Bible. TRINITY concept [the Father, Son and Holy Ghost] originated only after emperor Constantine became a Christian.

    He did that to fuse pagan Rome to Christianity.

    Only mention of Trinity concept of God in the Bible, is in the St. Matthew’s account of Christ’s last command to the apostles, “Go therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the son and of the Holy Spirit” [MAT 28:19.]

    According to Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia the Trinity doctrine was not established until 363 A.D. It says that Trinity is the result of three or four centuries of theological development.

    The New Catholic Encyclopedia also states that devotion to Trinity had begun in monasteries at Aniane and Tours, during 8th century.

    Jesus was a Jew. Still Judaism does not see Jesus as God or son of God.

    Islam and Christianity originated from Judaism. Name of Jesus is mentioned many times in the Holy Koran. Still Islam does not consider Jesus as God or son of God.

    Hinduism says there is no absolute truth; truth is subjectively based on what each individual believes.

    Hindu scriptures NEVER wrote that.

    Scriptures wrote, ” What we perceive as truth is false since truth is beyond mind and beyond intellect. As long as we see things in duality [two] we cannot perceive truth. A person who realizes truth become one with truth

  • 7. storbakken  |  May 31, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    The trimurti, which is the Hindu triad of Shiva, Brahma and Vishnu, was not established until many centuries (perhaps millenia) after the Shiva, Brahma and Vishnu were introduced to the pantheon of Hindu gods. The concept of the trimurti was introduced in the Puranas (especially the Srimad Bhagavatam) which was written in West Bengal between the 14th and 15th centuries.

    Thus, should Hindus disregard the trimurti simply because the concept was not formed until many, many years after Shiva, Brahma and Vishnu had already existed? I would surmise that most Hindus would not abandon the trimurti simply because it doesn’t fit their expected chronology.

  • 8. Zahid  |  December 14, 2007 at 11:32 pm

    Interesting… Did the trimurti cease to exist?
    Have Brahma, Siva and Vishnu ceased to exist?
    I was under the impression that god(s) have existed forever and will exist forever!

  • 9. Sunanda Sharma  |  August 28, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    The Aryan Invasion theory is false. FALSE!

  • 10. Runjhun  |  October 6, 2008 at 4:19 am

    Hinduism doesn’t have multiple gods. the words for God in hindi are eeshwar and bhagvan. they can not be used plurally. the “gods” you speak of are avatars. Avatars are incarnations of Brahma, the creator siva, the destroyer and visnu the preserver (the three parts of the universal soul, supreme being AKA GOD). What are incarnations? incarnations are pretty much sent down when humanity needs them. Ever heard of the concept of angels? now tell me do angels make christianity or islam polytheistic??? Further-more, since these avatars are incarnations of the three, we can worship them because they are essentially god coming down in a human form. THEY DIE! They are mortal. human. but special. AKA JESUS. you get me? we have a saviour who will come TOO. Our religion actually dates back as far as 10 000 BC. There is an ancient bridge, the one Rama built when he came to earth that was found exactly where our scriptures said it would be. what was it naamed though? Adam’s bridge. Hindus are also Tolerant. We don’t kill ppl for not believing in Our God. because we believe there is no Our God. There is ONE God. and Everyone worships that God in different ways. That is why if we choose to worship God through an avatar, we CAN. Hindu’s have no problem doing namaz or praying in a church if they feel like it. Our religion is a philosophy a history and a way of life. Sanskrit, the language of the scripture, is a language that has remained ever constant. We have a soul inside of us. A soul, a part of God. That is why we say “namaste” it means literally “I greet the soul, the piece of God in you” Our body houses this soul so it should be respected obviously, but the body is shed, and the soul joins with God again. Every living thing has a soul. and the number of souls never changes. think about it. if we have to eat animals or plants / cut down trees/plants to live, the more life, the more we get rid of them. The number of souls stays constant. Balance. Hindu philosophy is profound and deep and encourages deep profound thinking and philosopher. Hinduism encourages you to practice Dharma and karma. This means that you can not blindly follow a set of laws. You must THINK about your actions, their consequences, and what your duty is in the situation. and the aryan invasion theory is probably false. I agree.

  • 11. LeoPardus  |  October 6, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    Hmmm…. seems Hinduism has about as much developed apologetics, involved theology, prophecy etc as Christianity.

    Interesting that Hinduism has a trinity too.

    we have a saviour who will come TOO.

    Didn’t know that. Tell more please.

  • 12. hindustani  |  May 9, 2009 at 9:11 am

    actually, the real trinity of hinduism is shiva, shakthi and vinayak.

  • 13. isahrvar  |  May 9, 2009 at 9:21 am

    that s true. In bible, Jesus was born to a virgin by the holy spirit (power or shakthi ). here there is no involvement of Father. In the same way, parmeswari gave birth to vinayak by her power. here there is no involvement of parmeswar.

  • 14. faros  |  May 9, 2009 at 10:42 am

    i too agree with this concept of trinity in hinduism. Jesus died and was raised again by His Father. Vinayak died and was raised again by His Father (Shiva)

  • 15. Shirdi Baba  |  November 13, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    This is so nice, so glad I found this post. Hinduism and Bible, no matter how big their differences is, we just have to remember that God is too big to be fitted in just one name and one religion..
    Doing good to others and to yourself is still the key and the most important thing in this world, doesn’t matter what your religion is.

  • 16. Ubi Dubium  |  November 13, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    Cant agree with your first point, but I can wholeheartedly agree with the second one.

  • 17. Siva  |  May 20, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    While we dwell as much as we want on who is in the right path , why not we arrange a worldwide competition on knowing the so called One True God.

    Lets get 1 Kings 18 back into action. I would suggest we call the great sages of Hinduism, Buddhist, Muslims, Sikhs, the various Christian denomination Pastors and our Pope to get together in a closed door Olympic Stadium and start the competition. every religion/sect must be given one day to prove themselves. whoever prays and fire comes from the above , wins once and for all.

    Until then , lets not argue about Someone who does not even care to feed his starving children. God is a good Creator , but not a good Manager.

  • 18. Rk  |  May 2, 2012 at 4:34 am

    The coward Harry removed/twisteed my comments in his posts…

    It is a religion that….is a conglomeration of various beliefs from Aryans who migrated to India mixed with the beliefs of indigenous people of India.

    Wrong presumptions…..too many mistakes right in the beginning…

    1. so called Aryan Invasion theory is false propaganda of christian pseudo-intellectuals during British times done to denigrate Hinduism in the words of Max Mueller himself in his letters to his wife…its merely a linguistic theory or hypothesis without ANY real archaeological evidence of nay sort

    2. Religion is defined by its texts and not by its claimed to be followers…

    Its teachings may differ from sect to sect of the religion, but here are some of its basic teachings compared to the truth that we learn from God’s word:

    1. I understand you presume the truth of your religion…and presume it has some so called evidences.

    2. There are more number of different sects and interpretations in Hinduism, unlike xianity which killed of its heretic branches.

    Hinduism teaches that life is an endless cycle of rebirths (reincarnation) …. but return in a different bodily form……..

    The word of God says in Hebrews 9:27 “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” We only have one life to live on this Earth, so it’s imperative that we do right by Yahweh before we die by having faith in his Son, Jesus Christ.

    I do not see any point here. There is no reason to accept one claim over other as truth based on what you have said. However, the reincarnation makes clear sense than mere one birth hypothesis, especially when this so called yeah-way of yours creates everything out of nothing (creation ex-nihilo). It is illogical to believe in a god who punishes his own creation….for this god punishes his creation for the faults which exists in his own creation for which only this god can be responsible. Creation of a perfect god must do exactly what this god intended his creation to do…if it does not, then this god is at fault…it is not difficult for a perfect god to create creatures that make right choices out of their own free-will.

    According to Hindu teachings, men are in need of salvation from reincarnation to become gods

    wrong idea…salvation implies release from birth/death. They do not become “gods” (whatever this term means to you). Gita is very clear on this…

    and this salvation can only be obtained by ceremonial works such as yoga or having a guru assigned to you.

    “Yoga” of Gita is NOT physical exercises or works which you westerners naively think….Yoga here means being one with Vedic God in word, thought and deed all the time…

    Chapter VIII, 27-28 which states, “No Yogi, O son of Prithâ, is deluded after knowing these paths. …Whatever meritorious effect is declared (in the Scriptures) ….—above all this rises the Yogi,….” In other words, the supreme Abode of the Imperishable, Supreme Brahman is attained by merits like austerities and gifts.

    You did not even understand anything correctly…It says One who is a Yogi (i.e. one who is one with Vedic God in word, thought and deed all the time), attains all the benefits accrued by charity and other works and attains even more, i.e. immortality.

    Furthermore, those who are saved will one day receive a resurrection body that will make them equal to the angels (Luke 20:36). Man will never be a god.

    The idea of resurrection is no different than the weird idea of zombies, walking undead…First define what are “gods” and “angels” and the differences in your understanding…to me angels are no different from gods…both are limited beings…to say that we will become equal to angels is to say we will become gods…

    Gurus are a little lower than a god, according to Hinduism. …This teaches the guru can save people from Shiva’s anger but if you anger a guru, you cannot be saved.

    This is wrong conclusion….what it says is that if one commits sins and God gets angry (means He punishes here as per karma), a Guru can save you from God’s anger by prescribing method for repentance. If Guru (who is a Yogi) gets angry then no one can help you, as God considers such a Guru very very dear to Him. This is what it means.

    Mahanirvana Tantra, Chapter 6, 97-98 says, “…and then the line of Gurus should be worshipped. Then, with scent and flowers, worship the four Kula-gurus – namely, Guru, Parama-guru, Parapara-guru, Parameshti-guru.”

    Worship of Guru here means showing utmost reverence to him. It does not mean worship Guru who is equal to Vedic God. If anybody claims otherwise, it is against Vedas.

    The Bible says man is a little lower than the angels (Psalm 8:4,5; Hebrews 2:6-9). God gave us warning in Acts 12:21-23 about men who want to exalt themselves to god-status when he took Herod Antipas’ life after the people proclaimed Antipas was a god.

    By the way Vedas say clearly that man is much lower than Vedic devatas (which is translated as gods in English) and never become equal to them even in the eternal abode. Vedic God has no need to die..not even Vedic devatas (which you peole call as gods) die….It is a sin to raise dead people to status of god or son of god by fabricating fairy tales about resurrection etc….

    Hinduism is polytheistic.

    NOT true…Your quotes from rig Veda as response to another post proves nothing. You are so ignorant to know that Vedas were not written in English….translations (words) are not accurate for different languages…the conceptions and meanings of terms are different…The word Devatas are translated as gods…which leads to lot of confusion..this is a hint to you to decode Vedas correctly..

    One of their goddesses is Kali, who murders people at will for enjoyment.

    This is nonsense..

    Her lover/husband, the god Shiva the Destroyer (Destroyer is also Satan’s name in the Bible), is also merciless and seeks to destroy people’s lives for the fun of it. Sometimes the two gods are graphically depicted having sex and Shiva’s followers worship his male member, known as the lingam.

    Agian this is nonsense and your imagination which does not deserve a reply…….I have seen corsses in us applied with human excreta…followers raping young boys and girls ec. etc…SHould I even talk about the numerous genocidal verses in OT not to mention the rape verses where your god justifies getting female sex slaves and even gets a cut for himself…

    At the least any graphical depictions are NOT scriptural in Hinduism, but rape, genocide, and even infanticide is in your bible…so much for the truth of bible…

    The Bible says there is only one God (Ephesians 4:5-6)

    bible also says he is a jealous god (quality of a devil rather than a god)…

    and he does not delight in destroying lives (Ezekiel 33:11).

    One of the favorite passtimes of biblical devil is genocide of entire towns and cities. Have you heard of the saying “Actions speak louder than words”

    Deuteronomy 7:1-2, 20:10-17 speak of such incidents….this god of yours says after murdering all men you can take their women and children as plunder (sex slaves)…slavery originated with bible….Even murder of suckling infants (1 Samuel 15:3) was commanded by your demonic god…

    Hinduism promotes a caste system where some people are considered superior to others and are treated better. [The four castes, or varnas, are denoted in the Manusmriti, the laws of Manu.]

    Hinduism accepts some are superior and some are lesser….We see always clearly, gradation in capacity (intellectual, physical, emotional and spiritual) of different individuals in the real world. Hinduism opines truth even if it is often unpalatable to unworthy….False religions on the other hand opines all are equal etc. etc. even when we see in reality it is otherwise….

    Besides, isn’t it hypocritical, when biblical evil god allows and actively encouraged slavery (sexual slavery of women included and even underaged girls)…Judges 21:10-24 where yeah-way allows kidnapping and raping of women after murder of their men…

    Numbers:
    31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
    31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

    This god of yours allows murder of male children and asks his followers to keep little girls as sex slaves….and you xians who worship such a demon have the guts to talk about Hinduism……People like you and your so called prophets (profiteers in truth) are evidence that Vedic Varna system does indeed exist and not everyone deserves to know truth and not everyone should be allowed to do everything…evil men (like your prophets) bring forth only falsehood, misery and pain to this world…when an undeserving ruthless man (like your prophets) born in a ruthless tribe attempts to teach about God and truth this is what happens.

    God’s word says having respect of persons (showing favoritism) based on one’s socioeconomic status or any other worldly status is evil (James 2:1-9).

    Look who is talking here…Vedic varna system is NOT based on socio-economic status, but based on knowledge, conduct and character…which comes only by being born to similarly worth parents…you inherit the good and bad of your parents…this is scientific…if your parents are lecherous, like most westerners are, the nso is the offspring. Your prophets were mere bandits, thieves and lecherous rapists…your OT proves it…one who follows such bandits are no better..

    Hinduism says there is no absolute truth; truth is subjectively based on what each individual believes.

    False…many ignorant HIndus may say so…bu never Hinduism…unless you can prove your point by quoting scriptures…I know you can’t, nobody can as such a verse does not at all exist…Vedas say what is truth….

    Jesus said God’s word is the truth (John 17:17) and anything opposed to God or his word is evil (Deuteronomy 13:1-5; 18:20-22).

    I have quoted enough to show that bible, its prophets and god allows sexual slavery of women (Judges 21:10-24 ) and even little pre-pubescent girls (Numbers 31:17-18), genocide of entire towns and cities (Deuteronomy 7:1-2, 20:10-17) …and therefore bible, its prophets and its god are absolutely evil for any sane person…

    Demonic beings always opine falsehood as truth and evil as good…

    Hinduism has Brahmans who are religious leaders that use astrology, or planetary deities known as the navagrahas (nine planets), to direct their followers’ lives.
    Jehovah is against diviners and observers of times (Deuteronomy 18:10-14).

    A god who orders raping women (Judges 21:10-24 ) and pre-pubescent girls (Numbers 31:17-18), genocide and pillage of entire towns cannot be good (Deuteronomy 7:1-2, 20:10-17) simply because they did not believe in him cannot be good, but is pure evil.

    Words of such a demonic being and his possessed followers are always against truth and good.

    Some Hindus think that the God of Christianity is Santa Claus because he rewards good and punishes the bad.
    Jehovah, who executes judgment and justice on Earth, rewards those who turn from their sins in repentance and punishes evil, but he is merciful and longsuffering and is willing to forgive any sin except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Santa Claus is not Christian or biblical, but is a creation of the Roman Catholic heresy.

    jehovah is santa claus of bible, a clown…read above for the reason….nothing more than that….

    The gods of the Hindus do not forgive sins and are not interested in saving their worshippers. If someone does anything wrong, the individual has to face the karma that results from their actions whether they are sorry or not.

    LOL….you ignorant fellow…On the one hand you quote verses talking about salvation in Hinduism (read your very first point) and then say “gods of the Hindus do not forgive sins”….make up your mind…Brahma and Brahman are two different entities for your information…

    The God of the Bible is always willing to show his mercy and forgiveness to those who are truly sorry for their wrongs and many times reverses the punishment the person would have received if they had not repented. (Isaiah 38:1-6; Jonah 3)

    So your god is partial and makes ad-hoc decisions….sign of imperfection…He kills suckling infants (1 Samuel 15:3, sure sign of mercy of your god, LOL) for no fault of theirs, while forgives sinners without punishing them just because they repentant….This is a sign of psychological problem in your god….

    In the Hindu text of the Mahabharata, Book 1: Ada Parva: Adivansavatarana Parva section LXIV, the Earth is described as being supported on the back of an elephant who is held up by a tortoise. In the Hindu text Vishnu Purana: Book 1: Chapter IV, the Earth is said to have been raised up from a huge ocean by a large boar with tusks and that the boar set the Earth to float on the summit of the ocean. [added June 20, 2008]

    Words like Boar, elephant, tortoise etc. are names of different Forms of Vedic God…they do not represent literally some tortoise, boar etc….Any knowledgeable Hindu can understand what these refer to…

    In the Bible, in Job 26:7, it states that God hanged the Earth on nothing (i. e. he suspended it in space). While the Hindu scriptures obviously contradict each other and pass off fairy tales as the truth, the Bible states truth that was verified by science centuries after God revealed the truth to Job. [added June 20, 2008]

    Fairy tales….LOL….a christian who believes in talking snakes, talking ass (balam’s ass), flying zombies, adam and eve, apples, jonah living inside a whale (or is it a big fish) hehehehe…is talking about fairy tales….heheheheee give me a break man…

    Your bible talks about earth supported on pillars…you know job 26:7, but deliberately avoided others…

    1 Samuel 2:8 (For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, And He placed the world upon them)

    Job 9:6 (He Who causes the earth to quake from its place, and its pillars shudder)

    Job 26:7 (He stretches out the north over chaos; He suspends the earth on nothing.)

    The word north in this passage is used synonymously with firmament. What this passage is describing is the stretching of the dome-shaped firmament over the earth with no supports in the middle. To the ancient Hebrews, the earth was unattached to the

    center of the dome (i.e., the earth hung on nothing) just like the floor of a building is unattached to the center of a dome that covers it.

    It is no secret that the Bible often contradicts itself. In this case, the notion that the earth hangs on nothing is contradicted by other verses. For example, 1 Chron. 16:30 …the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. Psa. 93:1 …the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. Psa. 96:10 …the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: Psa. 104:5 [Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should not be removed for ever. Job. 26:11 “The pillars of heaven tremble…” 2 Sam. 22:8 “…the foundations of heaven moved…” Rather than hanging on nothing, these verses depict the earth and heavens as being firmly fixed on some kind of solid foundation or pillars.

    Of course, we now know the author of Job was wrong when he said the earth hangs on nothing. It hangs on the gravitational fields of the sun, moon, and other planets in its vicinity. It is, of course, this attraction that keeps the earth in orbit around the sun. Not only did

    the author of Job not know that the earth revolved around the sun (or rotated on its axis for that matter), he did not know anything about gravitation fields because they are invisible and God apparently neglected to tell him about them. He surmised the earth hung on nothing because, when he looked at the “dome of heaven” there appeared to be nothing that attached the earth to it. Again, his observations were consistent with what a TSIBAGH would be expected to have dreamed up.

    So much for bible science….

  • 19. Rk  |  May 2, 2012 at 4:39 am

    Harry,

    the fact that you clipped off much of my statements exposing bible shows you are afraid of truth being exposed about your vile bible cult and therefore cannot expect fair debate here….

    The Aryan invasion theory was not thrown out by Max Mueller and your belief that it was false propaganda by the British isn’t a proven fact.

    You did not understand my statement….

    max Mueller was a xian missionary an in order to prove his religion he propagated this false theory (it is based on merely linguistics)..This is known from mueller’s letters written to his wife denigrating Hinduism and praising christianity and letters written to Indian nationalists openly asking them to embrace xianity…….This is enough proof that xians will stoop to any level to spread their false vile cult…

    Here’s what Max Mueller said toward the end of his life in one of his final writings– “Aryas are those who speak Aryan languages, whatever their colour, whatever their blood. In calling them Aryas we predicate nothing of them except that the grammar of their language is Aryan. . . .

    Yes..yes…max mueller, a dogmatic xian, was forced to change his opinion after a lot of criticism for purporting racist and bigoted theory even by western academicians….I am not going to quote his openly bigoted statements against Hinduism, while praising xianity….what else can one expect from crooked missionaries like yourself who will simply delete my post just as you clipped a lot from my post…

    The 2005 findings of the Indian Genome Variation Consortium shows that the northern people of India’s genes can be traced back to Caucasians.

    You quote muller’s statements that the theory does not speak about race on the one hand and yet quote a genetic study which purports the theory is about race….

    Do not write half truths and lies harold….I know your religion xianity teaches that as your religion is falsehood…but try spelling out truth once…

    The term “Caucasoid” was used by Indian genome variation….Nowhere the paper says northern people can be traced back to caucasians as you lie. The term “caucasoid” itself is a subject of debate among academicians as to what exactly defines this term precisely. At best 2008 paper states that these are “closest to caucasoids”, and only in terms of “genetic variation”. Please learn what these terms mean before spouting nonsense…

    There are no written or inscribed records, or even native traditions, of this historic migration [of Aryans to India],

    Look at the contradiction in the quote…..This author says one the one hand there is no written or inscribed records, even the native ones and yet without any evidence as such says “of this historic migration [of Aryans to India]“

    How does he know without evidence this is historic? I guess he is a xian like you, who assume theat their religion is historic and true without any evidence whatsoever…

    but we are able to follow vaguely, from the references found in religious compositions, the gradual conquest of northern India, which covered a period of several centuries,”

    In other words, the author presumes historicity of an “assumed invasion theory” and then purports certain vague interpretation of religious compositions, claiming we are able to follow these religious composition only vaguely….

    This is clear admission by the author of foul play to prove his foul assumed invasion theory (AIT)..

    There is evidence of the Aryan conquests, but not of the migration of Aryans that preceded the conquests.

    Really, so you assume without any evidence that Aryan migration took place and then conclude there is evidence for an invasion …Lets say what these are?

    Furthermore, “[c]ertain of the Aryan gods still receive recognition in India after a lapse of over three thousand years,” including Indra, god of thunder (i.e. Thor), and Agni, god of fire (i.e. Heimdal), which has been confirmed via archaeological discoveries [Indian Myth and Legend, pp. xviii, xxxi, xlv].

    Is this the evidence? So let me reiterate…

    1. The author assumes there was a migration without any evidence by his own admission..

    2. Then he claims there is evidence for invasion after this migration…What is this evidence?

    3. Then he claims certain “Aryan gods” (which by the way is another assumption) are still recognized in India…and this is the evidence…real cyclic logic indeed…it is a wonder that these so called academicians (just xian bigots in reality) were even allowed to write books and papers…..

    I don’t presume, I know it’s true and the evidence backing it is proven & trustworthy. It has an accurate historical record written at the time when the historical people it mentions actually existed and did what the Bible says they did.

    really!!! I would like to see which scientific and historic record talks about garden of eden, adam and eve, talking snake in that garden, balam’s talking ass, the giant fish in which jonah lived, the global flood during noah which never happened etc. etc….LOL…

    For example, it mentions Persian King Cyrus ordered the building of a new temple in Jerusalem and helped fund it. History outside of the Bible backs this up.

    Just because bible mentions one or a few historic occurrences, it does not imply entire bible is true…

    The Bible also has numerous scientific statements it made long before science made the discoveries to match what it said.

    heheheheh…I have heard similar claims being made by Islamic mullahs in their madrassas…unless you claim “sky is solid” and “rabbit chews cud” as scientific discoveries as your bible claims…

    Then there’s the matter of hundreds of spiritual prophecies it makes that have been fulfilled.

    LOL…..there is not a single prophecy in bible….you xians and jews have been claiming about non-existent prohecies….this is all lies…..your dead/imaginary god is not there (anymore) and ain’t coming back..

    So the fact that the Bible is backed by facts is indisputable. And the fact you dismiss the facts shows that you embrace ignorance.

    blind followers make tall claims…..earth created before sun…one example of scientific error…

    There are still heretics in the Christian world–those who claim Christianity but don’t follow true Christianity. That would include the Watchtower Society (Jehovah’s Witnesses), Mormonism, Catholicism, the Hebrew Israelites, and many more.

    Protestants and catholics kill each other in ireland in present day…catholics were killing protestants andjews for a long time….protestants were kilkling catholics and jews for along time…Even in the beginning years, good xians killed of many heretic sects (Arius sect, gnostics etc.)

    That’s just your unfounded opinion based on your ignoring the facts I’ve presented in my post and in my comments. The Bible is true historically, scientifically, and spiritually and I’ve provided the evidence to back up my claims.

    You have not provided any proof for your unfounded claims…Adam and eve stor is plain nonsense as per science…there is no scientific evidence that jesus even existed…genesis claims Earth was created before Sun, scientifically we know this is false….

    Reincarnation has no evidence to back it up whatsoever. No evidence exists showing that one life form can come back as a totally different life form after it dies.

    We Hindus agree that these things have no Scientific evidence…but neither there is scientific evidence for your resurrection…

    However, there is documented evidence that resurrection happens where people who die come back from the dead as the same person.

    This is NOT evidence of resurrection…This is just an evidence that instruments used for declaring “clinical death” is imperfect…

    The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is also backed by evidence.

    There is no such evidence outside of biblical claims…

    I also find it amusing in this day and age that you mock the fact that God created everything out of nothing since it’s now proven scientific fact that the universe was formed suddenly from nothing. For you to cling to the Steady State Theory which Hinduism teaches, believing the universe has been here from eternity, is to blatantly ignore the facts.

    1. Science clearly states that it does not know what hapened before big-bang.

    2. Science states that Big-Bang started with singularity.

    3. Singularity has infinite mass density, which means it is NOT nothing as bible falsely claims…

    This only further proves that bible is false…

    As far as God punishing his creation is concerned, your argument in hypocritical nonsense. You attempt to criticize God for not creating robots,

    Clearly you deleted the last most important statement in my post…I quote it again

    it is not difficult for a perfect god to create creatures that make right choices out of their own free-will.

    This statement does NOT prevent free-will and is logical…

    According to you, “Creation of a perfect god must do exactly what this god intended his creation to do.” But since you’re not perfect yourself, how would YOU know what a perfect god would do? You don’t know enough about the universe to draw such a conclusion.

    It may not be easy or even impossible to know what a perfect god would do, but it is easy to tell what he will NOT do based on logic…

    And since you’re enjoying the capability to argue what you believe is right and against what you believe is wrong, God must not be all that bad since you’re able to do it because he created you with that capability.

    I do not quite get what is your point here….in fact i find no point at all and perhaps you did not understand what my point is?

    1. Your theology agrees that certain souls are punished eternally…
    2. => evil exists as per your theology…

    Lets keep this points aside…

    1. Whatever a perfect god does cannot contain any mistakes?
    2. allegedly perfect god allegedly created this Universe and everything in it, including humans.
    3. Certain human beings (angels as well) make evil choices as per your theology and therefore evil and suffering exists in this world.
    4. It is clear your god created these beings in point 3.

    5. Free-will does not explain why the beings in point 3 chose evil, for there are also beings who chose good as per your theology.

    Free-will merely explains that one can choose good or evil, but NOT why somebody chooses good or why somebody else evil.

    6. Therefore, either your allegedly perfect god, made these beings in point 3, intentionally evil or your god is ignorant of what he created.

    7. I done intentionally, your alleged god is evil and hence NOT perfect. If done unknowingly, your alleged god is ignorant and hence imperfect.

    Hence my statement “It is illogical to believe in god who punishes his own creation.”

    Either way why worship such an evil/ignoramus god?

    8. it is not difficult for a perfect god to create creatures that make right choices out of their own free-will. This statement is NOT illogical.

    For once Harry, instead of clipping or deleting my posts, be a real man and post everything.

  • 20. cag  |  May 2, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    There are no gods. Case closed.

  • 21. JT  |  July 26, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Hey RK, Hope you die soon and then learn for your self the right-way who the real GOD is. Don’t take bible passages out of context and talk about my GOD. You don’t deserve any clarifications because you are so deep rooted in your HOLY COW Shit. Lets see if you are going to re-incarnate and what you are going to reincarnate as , may be a dog..may be a caterpillar and I am not sure what good deeds you will do , to get a promotion in your next life- may be not eating any more shit. DONT YOU DARE TALK ABOUT MY LIVING GOD.

  • 22. cag  |  July 27, 2012 at 12:37 am

    JT, yours is but one of thousands of gods created by humans to control other humans. Your god is not alive and it is not dead, it doesn’t exist. The bible represents the ignorance of ancients. We have progressed since then to the point that we use science not religion to determine reality. Come and join us in the present, don’t live in the past.

  • 23. Rk  |  August 3, 2012 at 5:10 am

    “Hey RK, Hope you die soon and then learn for your self the right-way who the real GOD is. ”

    Hey JT, I am reminded of your bible verse “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.”…don’t you want to see me burn in hell and your fake god taking revenge on me for exposing to you the vile nature of your vile biblical god. LOL…You see mullahs and muslims also use “out of context” argument when you quote vile statements from their book….how can anyone justify commandment to kill suckling infants? No context can justify this cruel act, which in the history of religion only old testament gives such vile commandments…True sign of a demonic religion given by a demonic god…

    and you think you think you made a very strong logical refutation of reincarnation..which in reality is a pile of crap from the behind of 2000 year old stinking corpse you worship as god?

  • 24. Rk  |  August 3, 2012 at 5:44 am

    By the way I was wondering why such devoted christians as JT use such vulgar language “sh*t” etc.? By the power of heavens I came across the following very informational website which exposes the fetish this biblical god has for fecal/excretory matter…..

    http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible4.htm

    God’s Fecal Fetish

    “If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.” (Malachi 2:2-3)
    Comment

    Amazingly God appears to have a fecal fetish.

    This commandment to the priests told by the Lord gives example of the Satanic threats of curses He seems to enjoy. What should one think of a God that would smear feces upon the faces of his creations? Such vulgarity can hardly give good example to high morality.

    ===================================

    I implore everybody, especially Christians, to go through the page for a good laugh….

  • 25. Rk  |  August 3, 2012 at 6:05 am

    “You don’t deserve any clarifications because you are so deep rooted in your HOLY COW Shit.”
    =============================

    (pardon my biblical language for I am merely quoting bible.)

    Speaking of cow sh*t (pardon my biblical language), biblical god is indeed the SCAT GOD (animal or even human scat).

    =======================

    Eat Human Feces!

    “And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them.” (Ezekiel 4:12-13)
    Comment

    Holy shit cakes, Batman! How many good Christians today realize that their God has coprophilic tendencies?

    One wonders what nutritional or moral value it would serve the people to eat human feces with their bread, as God ordered. God here has also ordered the voyeuristic operation without explanation. Although in verses 14-15 the poor Israelites complain about eating abominable flesh, God (in his “wonderful” grace) changes his mind and allows them to substitute human feces with cow feces. Gee, thanks a lot God! (as if eating cow excrement makes much of a difference). You’d think the Creator of the entire universe might have given his “chosen ones” a soufflé or a bagel or something. Please, anything better than shit-cakes! One might also wonder: how can an all-knowing and perfect God (but a scat-God nevertheless), change his mind?

    [Note: some have tried to interpret "dung" as fuel here but nothing in those verses relate to anything at all about fuel and it specifically says to bake it "with" dung. Moreover the verses speak of "defiled bread" and "abominable flesh" which obliterates the fuel theory. During biblical times barley served as a poor-man's staple. They also fed their cattle barley, which may explain the adding of dung (with its undigested barley) to the cake to increase the barely content.]

  • 26. Neil C. Reinhardt  |  August 19, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    All of this time and energy spent arguing over these childish religious myths?

    What a waste!

  • 27. Saron  |  October 12, 2012 at 3:06 am

    If YOU READ the sacred book of the HINDUS ” VEDAS” you will become a christian….Rig Vedas speaks about the savior(Prajapati) that is born to a virgin, a savior that is finally crucified on a Tree..That person is none other than Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Bible who is born to a virgin woman named Mary…..Amazing Truth!

  • 28. ubi dubium  |  October 12, 2012 at 7:19 am

    Saron,
    If that were true, then all the Hindus would have converted by now. But there’s a billion Hindus out there who have read their sacred books and have no interest in converting to your religion, so your statement is obviously false. Religions borrow stuff from each other all the time, and the same common themes keep popping up. This is not evidence that your religion is true, it’s evidence that your religion is unoriginal.

    Do you have any other false assumptions that your preacher has taught you that you’d like to parrot for us?

  • 29. Rk  |  October 25, 2012 at 6:30 am

    Saron,

    Vedas predate crucifixianity by at the least two millenia…so how could it talk about jeebus or cheesus? By the way Prajapati is such a minor god in Vedas, he does not even have temples…no Hindu bothers to worship him, and fo ryour information there umpteen Prajapatis in Vedas..its not a person, it refers to some position held by gods, which is taken by different gods at different times…and finally Rig Veda or any other Veda does not talk about anyone being crucified…we don’t have such barbaric things in Vedas..

  • 30. jay  |  June 16, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    If eating forbidden fruit was to giveknowledge of good and evil, is it not cheating onthe part of Jehovah that He did not want them toacquire this knowledge? If it is said that it was notso, the tree had no power of bestowing suchknowledge and that it was merely a symbol to

    indicate that abiding by Jehovah‟s commands is

    good and violating them is evil, this interpretation not being contained in the scripture cannot be

    accepted. The scripture further says, “

    After eatingthe forbidden fruit, their eyes opened

  • 31. jay  |  June 16, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    Why did Jehovah plant that tree in theGarden of Eden and forbid the man and womanfrom eating its fruit? If His purport was to makethem realize that to obey His commands is goodand to disobey them is bad, why did He give thiscommand which was of no use to either Himself orothers

  • 32. jay  |  June 16, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    Had God provided them with discriminationat the time of creating them, they would haveknown that God is the ultimate cause and that it isgood to obey Him and bad to violate. The tree ofknowledge then becomes redundant

  • 33. jay  |  June 16, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    If Jehovah forbade man from eating the fruitof the tree in order to know whether or not theman would obey his command, it would mean He

  • 34. jay  |  June 16, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    If Jehovah forbade man from eating the fruitof the tree in order to know whether or not theman would obey his command, it would mean He lacked knowledge of past present and future, there for such god and the story behind is from human with limited knowledge. A human is called god is a disservice and insult to god himself

  • 35. jay  |  June 16, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    If it is argued that Jehovah had given freewill to man and man alone is responsible for hismistakes and that Jehovah was not to be blamed, itis not acceptable. For, if a father allows freedom tohis innocent children and the children commitgrave mistakes, who is to blame, the children or thefather? Is He justified in giving freedom to personsdevoid of discrimination? Can Satan have power tobeguile and to bring to harm the man whom Jehovah created in His own image? If Jehovah wasabsent when Satan tempted the woman, it isevident that Jehovah is not omnipresent. If He wasnot aware of that Satan was to tempt the woman, itis evident that Jehovah is not omniscient. If He

    knew about Satan‟s intention, but failed to prevent

    the happenings, it is evident that Jehovah is notomnipotent. If He was aware of the happeningsand allowed them to take place, it is evident that Jehovah is without compassion

  • 36. jay  |  June 16, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    Can he who, even after seeing his child beingattacked by a beast, does not try his best to rescuethe child and remains quiet, be called a father?Never! Is it justified to consider Jehovah as fatherof all beings?

  • 37. ubi dubium  |  June 16, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    Very good Jay, you are figuring it out! The idea of a god making humans that do not understand good and evil, then punishing them and all their descendants for disobedience when they could not know it was wrong, that’s a ridiculous story to begin with. But the xians need to sell people on this thing called “sin” if they are going to sell us their expensive cure for it. They really need some kind of backstory to explain “sin”, but this ancient myth really doesn’t do the job.

    This supposed perfect god created people with a capacity to sin, and would have known in advance what would happen. Then he tortures people forever for being exactly the way he created them? If such a god existed, which is unlikely, it would not be a being that deserved worship.

  • 38. cag  |  June 17, 2013 at 12:00 am

    The bible is evidence that bronze age humans living in what is now Israel were not very good at fiction. They obviously didn’t learn from the Greeks.

  • 39. jay  |  June 17, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Why did Jehovah curse the serpents as awhole while it was Satan who came in the form ofserpent and beguiled men?Is it justified that the innocent serpents werevictims of the curse whereas the actual culprits, i.e.Satan, the tree of knowledge and Jehovah whocreated them received no such curse?

  • 40. jay  |  June 17, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    first of all. let me give the credit of intellectual skills of CHATTAMBI SWAMI. who was a Hindu academic sick and tired of Christians who make troubles in front of Hindu temple and shot Hinduism was satanic during the British times. so he had to write an article about the issue. the fun part was even the Christians of that time accepted his critics and the priest who were intellectually inferior possibly a low caste convert did not even had the intellectual capacity to explain the bible itself. they were simply repeating the bible without comprehending what was written in bible and converting low caste Hindus. the Hindu saint thought that was unfair so he had to write an article and educate the Hindus who have no access to academicals and knowledge. the funny part is such priest did manage to convert 40% of the people in that state during the last 100 years any way. there is no question the people who are convert has good educational qualification of modern universities. But definitely they lack the skills of going in depth and making inference of there own religion. you can all read the book called ” christu matha chedanam and it is free . just google it.

  • 41. diseases stds men  |  September 14, 2013 at 5:07 am

    The liver is the body’s number one fat burning organ and its health and function is closely
    related to how lean your physique will be. Your faith in God the
    support of your friends will help you eliminate between one and five pounds weekly.
    Also, fat in the body to lose more amount of fat in your
    body. Feel free to eat sweets but you need video instruction allergies away to do it?

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Attention Christian Readers

Just in case you were wondering who we are and why we de-converted.

de-conversion wager

Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will have made a positive impact on those around you. If there is a benevolent God reviewing your life, you will be judged on your actions and not just on your ability to blindly believe in creeds- when there is a significant lack of evidence on how to define God or if he/she even exists.

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