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	<title>Comments on: Do Christians worship the Bible as God?</title>
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	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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		<title>By: Worshiping the Bible or &#8220;bibliolatry&#8221; &#124; Be Alive Podcasting</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-76566</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Worshiping the Bible or &#8220;bibliolatry&#8221; &#124; Be Alive Podcasting]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Apr 2013 15:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-76566</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] de-conversion blog deals with this question in [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] de-conversion blog deals with this question in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alban</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75883</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alban]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 08:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75883</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TJ - If cag and ubi dubium lack anything it is the inability or unwillingness to explore the the depth of their own selves. What you do bring to the table like them, is your own trust in yourself. The ability to put harmful addictions behind you is a credit to you, not a 2nd or third party magician. That strength is self contained not transmitted or &quot;confirmed&quot;  thru or by faith.

What you can take from this site is the ability to think for yourself and lessen or eliminate your conviction with hearsay and some (not all) really inaccurate hearsay at that.

Forget right and wrong in the debate and seek accurate perspective. You and only you can be the judge. In the end accuracy eliminates the need to judge or use the measure of right and wrong in determining the source of your challenges- and your prowess in meeting them while recognizing the sovereign joy of living.

Otherwise you will be like a solitary misdirected seal in the midst of of killer whales.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TJ &#8211; If cag and ubi dubium lack anything it is the inability or unwillingness to explore the the depth of their own selves. What you do bring to the table like them, is your own trust in yourself. The ability to put harmful addictions behind you is a credit to you, not a 2nd or third party magician. That strength is self contained not transmitted or &#8220;confirmed&#8221;  thru or by faith.</p>
<p>What you can take from this site is the ability to think for yourself and lessen or eliminate your conviction with hearsay and some (not all) really inaccurate hearsay at that.</p>
<p>Forget right and wrong in the debate and seek accurate perspective. You and only you can be the judge. In the end accuracy eliminates the need to judge or use the measure of right and wrong in determining the source of your challenges- and your prowess in meeting them while recognizing the sovereign joy of living.</p>
<p>Otherwise you will be like a solitary misdirected seal in the midst of of killer whales.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ubi dubium</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75834</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ubi dubium]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 02:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Cag.  Yes, I say &quot;probably no god&quot; because there is a tiny but non-zero probability that there could be something in the universe that might qualify as a god.  But biblegod?  Zero chance of that, because the whole idea is contradictory with reality.  A god that&#039;s omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent, and yet was behind all the horrible injustices of the bible, and also allows horrible things to happen to innocent people?  A god who is perfect, yet hides so well that many millions of people are unconvinced of his reality?  A god who would make imperfect people, then torture them forever for being imperfect?  Sorry, that god is a fiction, just like all the other gods humans have ever dreamed up.

And TJ, dragging out old Pascal one more time? Really?  Well, my response to that is a quote from the wisdom of that well-known sage, Homer Simpson:

&quot;Suppose we&#039;ve chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we&#039;re just making him madder and madder!&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Cag.  Yes, I say &#8220;probably no god&#8221; because there is a tiny but non-zero probability that there could be something in the universe that might qualify as a god.  But biblegod?  Zero chance of that, because the whole idea is contradictory with reality.  A god that&#8217;s omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent, and yet was behind all the horrible injustices of the bible, and also allows horrible things to happen to innocent people?  A god who is perfect, yet hides so well that many millions of people are unconvinced of his reality?  A god who would make imperfect people, then torture them forever for being imperfect?  Sorry, that god is a fiction, just like all the other gods humans have ever dreamed up.</p>
<p>And TJ, dragging out old Pascal one more time? Really?  Well, my response to that is a quote from the wisdom of that well-known sage, Homer Simpson:</p>
<p>&#8220;Suppose we&#8217;ve chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we&#8217;re just making him madder and madder!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: cag</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 01:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TJ, others created the image of god in your head. You are responsible for your actions, nobody else. Have you ever thought about how fervently people 2000 years ago clung to their gods? Roman gods, Greek gods, Norse gods, Aztec gods, Egyptian gods, gods ad nauseam. Gods that people were killed for not believing. All these gods are now on the scrap heap of human creations. Your god is there too, you just don&#039;t know it yet.

How many times do we have to be subjected to Pascal&#039;s Wager? As rational, thinking humans, those who reject all superstitious nonsense, gods have no punitive force to compel us. Threats of hell, as implied by you may work on weak or lazy minds but they do not work on people who demand evidence instead of platitudes. 

Your bible is not proof, it is the claim. Modern science has shown that the claim is baseless. The earth is not the centre of the universe - how could an all-knowing god write or inspire such an obvious error. 

When Ubi says that there probably is no god, it is the same as saying there probably is no Santa Claus. It is just the rigor of her rationality that allows for an infinitely small, like a grain of sand compared to all of the universe, chance of a god. All that she is saying is that it is impossible to gather the evidence that Russell&#039;s Teapot does not exist.   

You have wasted a lot of time, and you, like a few billion others, look foolish talking to yourself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TJ, others created the image of god in your head. You are responsible for your actions, nobody else. Have you ever thought about how fervently people 2000 years ago clung to their gods? Roman gods, Greek gods, Norse gods, Aztec gods, Egyptian gods, gods ad nauseam. Gods that people were killed for not believing. All these gods are now on the scrap heap of human creations. Your god is there too, you just don&#8217;t know it yet.</p>
<p>How many times do we have to be subjected to Pascal&#8217;s Wager? As rational, thinking humans, those who reject all superstitious nonsense, gods have no punitive force to compel us. Threats of hell, as implied by you may work on weak or lazy minds but they do not work on people who demand evidence instead of platitudes. </p>
<p>Your bible is not proof, it is the claim. Modern science has shown that the claim is baseless. The earth is not the centre of the universe &#8211; how could an all-knowing god write or inspire such an obvious error. </p>
<p>When Ubi says that there probably is no god, it is the same as saying there probably is no Santa Claus. It is just the rigor of her rationality that allows for an infinitely small, like a grain of sand compared to all of the universe, chance of a god. All that she is saying is that it is impossible to gather the evidence that Russell&#8217;s Teapot does not exist.   </p>
<p>You have wasted a lot of time, and you, like a few billion others, look foolish talking to yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: TJ</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75824</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Mar 2013 21:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75824</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Ubi.
If i managed to create an idea of God simply from what was inside my head, then i&#039;d still be a smoking, drinking drug addict, or possibly dead. If there is no God, as you say you most probably think, then maybe i&#039;ve wasted a lot of time and perhaps made myself look foolish. If you are wrong my friend, what have you lost?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Ubi.<br />
If i managed to create an idea of God simply from what was inside my head, then i&#8217;d still be a smoking, drinking drug addict, or possibly dead. If there is no God, as you say you most probably think, then maybe i&#8217;ve wasted a lot of time and perhaps made myself look foolish. If you are wrong my friend, what have you lost?</p>
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		<title>By: cag</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75817</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Mar 2013 18:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75817</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Deluded christians:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Genesis 17:19 
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for &lt;b&gt;an everlasting covenant&lt;/b&gt;, and with his seed after him. 
Exodus 12:14, 17, 24 
And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. ... And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an &lt;b&gt;ordinance for ever.&lt;/b&gt; ... And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons &lt;b&gt;for ever.&lt;/b&gt; 
Leviticus 23:14,21,31 
It shall be a statute &lt;b&gt;for ever&lt;/b&gt; throughout your generations. 
Deuteronomy 4:8-9 
What nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? ... teach them thy sons, and thy sons&#039; sons. 
Deuteronomy 7:9 
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and &lt;b&gt;keep his commandments to a thousand generations. &lt;/b&gt;
Deuteronomy 11:1, 26-28 
Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, &lt;b&gt;and his commandments, alway.&lt;/b&gt; (v.1) 
Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God. (vv.26-28) 
1 Chronicles 16:15 
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations ... &lt;b&gt;an everlasting covenant.&lt;/b&gt; 
Psalm 119:151-2, 160 
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast &lt;b&gt;founded them for ever.&lt;/b&gt; (vv.151-2) 
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments &lt;b&gt;endureth for ever.&lt;/b&gt; (v.160) 
Ecclesiastes 12:13 
Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 
Malachi 4:4 
Remember ye the law of Moses. 
Matthew 5:18-19 
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. 
Luke 16:17 
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. &lt;/blockquote&gt;It appears that your jesus in forgiving the adulterous woman, broke the law. I am aware that the bible contains passages that can be interpreted as abrogating the law, but all that proves is that the bible is a mishmash of contradictory claims that can best be described as &quot;damned if you do, damned if you don&#039;t&quot;. The bible is a ridiculous book to base ones life on. God is a ridiculous concept to base ones life on. Of the thousands of gods that have been fervently believed in, your god is just another waiting to be rejected.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deluded christians:</p>
<blockquote><p>Genesis 17:19<br />
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for <b>an everlasting covenant</b>, and with his seed after him.<br />
Exodus 12:14, 17, 24<br />
And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. &#8230; And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an <b>ordinance for ever.</b> &#8230; And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons <b>for ever.</b><br />
Leviticus 23:14,21,31<br />
It shall be a statute <b>for ever</b> throughout your generations.<br />
Deuteronomy 4:8-9<br />
What nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? &#8230; teach them thy sons, and thy sons&#8217; sons.<br />
Deuteronomy 7:9<br />
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and <b>keep his commandments to a thousand generations. </b><br />
Deuteronomy 11:1, 26-28<br />
Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, <b>and his commandments, alway.</b> (v.1)<br />
Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God. (vv.26-28)<br />
1 Chronicles 16:15<br />
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations &#8230; <b>an everlasting covenant.</b><br />
Psalm 119:151-2, 160<br />
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast <b>founded them for ever.</b> (vv.151-2)<br />
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments <b>endureth for ever.</b> (v.160)<br />
Ecclesiastes 12:13<br />
Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.<br />
Malachi 4:4<br />
Remember ye the law of Moses.<br />
Matthew 5:18-19<br />
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.<br />
Luke 16:17<br />
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. </p></blockquote>
<p>It appears that your jesus in forgiving the adulterous woman, broke the law. I am aware that the bible contains passages that can be interpreted as abrogating the law, but all that proves is that the bible is a mishmash of contradictory claims that can best be described as &#8220;damned if you do, damned if you don&#8217;t&#8221;. The bible is a ridiculous book to base ones life on. God is a ridiculous concept to base ones life on. Of the thousands of gods that have been fervently believed in, your god is just another waiting to be rejected.</p>
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		<title>By: ubi dubium</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75815</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ubi dubium]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Mar 2013 16:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TJ and Patreicia 

Please take your preaching elsewhere, we&#039;ve all heard far too much of it already.  If preaching were convincing, we never would have left religion. 

And cut it out with the &quot;you never knew god&quot; stuff.  Consider that all the people in the world who claim to &quot;know god&quot; all come up with different things that god is telling them.  So either this almighty all-powerful being can&#039;t communicate accurately with humans, or most of these people don&#039;t actually &quot;know god&quot; at all. Or none of them do.  I think that most probably there isn&#039;t a god at all, in which case you don&#039;t  &quot;know god&quot; either.  You&#039;ve created an image in our head of a god, like yourself only bigger.  That&#039;s what you&#039;re bowing down to.  So it&#039;s easy to feel like you have a &quot;close personal relationship&quot; with something that&#039;s all in your head.

And &quot;perfect love&quot; is a scam.  There&#039;s only us humans on this planet, doing the best that we can.  It&#039;s better to show real day-to-day love to them, instead of going on about some &quot;perfect love&quot; pie-in-the-sky fantasy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TJ and Patreicia </p>
<p>Please take your preaching elsewhere, we&#8217;ve all heard far too much of it already.  If preaching were convincing, we never would have left religion. </p>
<p>And cut it out with the &#8220;you never knew god&#8221; stuff.  Consider that all the people in the world who claim to &#8220;know god&#8221; all come up with different things that god is telling them.  So either this almighty all-powerful being can&#8217;t communicate accurately with humans, or most of these people don&#8217;t actually &#8220;know god&#8221; at all. Or none of them do.  I think that most probably there isn&#8217;t a god at all, in which case you don&#8217;t  &#8220;know god&#8221; either.  You&#8217;ve created an image in our head of a god, like yourself only bigger.  That&#8217;s what you&#8217;re bowing down to.  So it&#8217;s easy to feel like you have a &#8220;close personal relationship&#8221; with something that&#8217;s all in your head.</p>
<p>And &#8220;perfect love&#8221; is a scam.  There&#8217;s only us humans on this planet, doing the best that we can.  It&#8217;s better to show real day-to-day love to them, instead of going on about some &#8220;perfect love&#8221; pie-in-the-sky fantasy.</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia Backora</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75814</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patricia Backora]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Mar 2013 15:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75814</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s taken me years to understand that while all the Bible is inspired, only parts of it are literally applicable to New Testament Christians.  It&#039;s always wrong to murder or commit adultery.  But God no longer commands adulteresses to be stoned (consider Jesus&#039; example of forgiving the woman taken in adultery).  We don&#039;t offer up animals or keep the Kosher food laws.  The Scriptures only come alive as God breathes life into them and makes it a word to YOU.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s taken me years to understand that while all the Bible is inspired, only parts of it are literally applicable to New Testament Christians.  It&#8217;s always wrong to murder or commit adultery.  But God no longer commands adulteresses to be stoned (consider Jesus&#8217; example of forgiving the woman taken in adultery).  We don&#8217;t offer up animals or keep the Kosher food laws.  The Scriptures only come alive as God breathes life into them and makes it a word to YOU.</p>
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		<title>By: TJ</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75811</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Mar 2013 12:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-75811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear friend, i did &quot;take a step back&quot;, and for over fifteen years. i cannot ever fully explain how utterly ashamed i am to think how much i must have terribly grieved the heart of God Who loves me infinitely more than i ever deserve. Going solely by what you said above, either you never knew God, or you now wish you didn&#039;t. Psalm 139 says i cannot go anywhere that God is not, and now i&#039;m glad.i don&#039;t worship God&#039;s word, i worship God Who will &quot;never leave or forsake&quot; me. Don&#039;t turn your back on perfect love any longer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear friend, i did &#8220;take a step back&#8221;, and for over fifteen years. i cannot ever fully explain how utterly ashamed i am to think how much i must have terribly grieved the heart of God Who loves me infinitely more than i ever deserve. Going solely by what you said above, either you never knew God, or you now wish you didn&#8217;t. Psalm 139 says i cannot go anywhere that God is not, and now i&#8217;m glad.i don&#8217;t worship God&#8217;s word, i worship God Who will &#8220;never leave or forsake&#8221; me. Don&#8217;t turn your back on perfect love any longer.</p>
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		<title>By: OK</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/04/19/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-74309</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2013 23:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/do-christians-worship-the-bible-as-god/#comment-74309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can I love and follow Yeshua without being a Vulgate worshipping Nicean???]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I love and follow Yeshua without being a Vulgate worshipping Nicean???</p>
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