Comments on: Religion will not prevent mass killings (such as VT)

By: dwhitsett

dwhitsett — Wed, 02 May 2007 15:32:14 +0000

So much of what you say is true. In places in the Bible there are depictions of terrible violence. I was, however, a little curious about your statement that violence is promoted therein. Even the “good guys” like David became unrighteousy violent but it is hardly condoned. It is commonly expressed that the Bible promotes violence, but I think that thought deserves closer scrutiny. http://dwhitsett.wordpress.com/

By: honjii

honjii — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:48:06 +0000

Brad,
You brought up a point I meant to mention earlier. We probably don’t have anymore violence per capita then there ever was, we simply have a population that is expanding exponentially, and more readily available information than we have had in the past.

A good friend of mine is a primatologist who has spent years observing chimps as well as some lesser primates. The amount of hugging and the amount of violence, according to her, pretty much mirrors that of human populations.

By: brad

brad — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:53:18 +0000

Super, more blame-game scapegoating. I am pretty sure this is how religion itself started. Any two-bit psychologist can tell you that we pseudo-sociologists are looking in the wrong places. How about looking at the situation this way:
A= “Event” (ie. playing video games, reading the Bible, playing soccer)
C= “Action” (ie. shooting people, declaring war, swearing at a ref)

What is missing here is the key ingredient: B, the “interpretation” of the event. Stellar’s idea that video games and violent media are to blame are no different than the ideas of Chuck Norris, Pat Robertson, and, of course, Jack Thompson: they all want to blame something external. Something that can be fixed. The logical problem with this idea is that it all comes down to believe that their was this imaginary utopia where people did not hurt each other. I suppose this is okay if you believe in the Disney version of Atlantis or the Garden of Eden, but I don’t.

Anthropologists have yet to see any evidence for a time in human consciousness that humans were not extremely violent towards one another. Humans didn’t always have video games. We didn’t have violent movies. We didn’t have guns. We have the potentiality for acting for another’s benefit or harm. So ban violent violent video games, movies, and guns, and guess what, we will still be violent and still hurt each other on a mass scale.

I will tell you what you people do when you blame something other than Cho Seung or the two guys from Columbine: you cheapen it. You simplify it for your own superficial comfort. Life sucks, you can’t fix everyone so you need to explain it away. Sounds an awful lot like a couple religions I know of.

By: honjii

honjii — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:15:16 +0000

Pedro, Personally I don't like watching violent movies, televison shows, or playing violent video games. I do agree that games or movies don't give most adults violent urges, and the extremely disturbed among us may eventually commit an act of violence with our without this exposure. The problem is, all the violence in entertainment makes us, as a society, desensitized to the point where when we hear news of violence most folks just shrug it off. It has become too much a part of normal everyday life for some. Notice in the above paragraph, I refer to adults. Unfortunately in many popular movies, television shows and games being BAD is made to look glamorous and super cool. When children are constantly bombarded with these messages and there is no balancing force, they don't have to be crazy or disturbed to want to emulate what they see as being cool. It's a sad reality that for many children their favorite tv, movie, or game criminals are their primary role models. Perhaps if the violence portrayed in games and movies looked anything at all like real life violence (and trust me it's not even close) people would be so horrified (as they should be) they'd stop watching.

By: tobeme

tobeme — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:47:26 +0000

I agree there is more exposure to viloence in more ways than there ever has been before. Some may point to violence of the past where children and adults were exposed to the real violence of the world. The difference now is that the violence we are exposed though in games, music and movies is violence without real consequence, therefore children of today who are exposed to violence do not grasp the reality of violence and the damage that it does to them and society.
I agree, organized religion is not the sole answer. This is whole community probem which needs holistc solutions, not simply pointing to a bible and saying there is your solution.
Good post.

By: stellar1

stellar1 — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:45:07 +0000

Adam,

I think the fact that every time one of these mass shootings occur, it is a history setting event. First it was the university in Texas, then Columbine and now VT that all set historical markers for being the deadliest at something. That fact alone shows the escalation of violence over time.

Pedro,

While I agree that some people can play video games – even the violent ones – without becoming violent themselves; I also think there are some, like the VT shooter, who are mentally unstable that cannot seperate reality from fantasy. These are the ones from whom society needs to protect itself.

-Stellar1

By: HeIsSailing

HeIsSailing — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:38:45 +0000

Heather sez:
“Seriously. Every time I hear about how the Religious Right wants to restore the US to a Christian nation, exactly which point in time are the Religious Right referring to?”

Many MANY years ago, I saw an episode of Fantasy Island that made fun of people who wanted to return to a ‘Christian Nation’. (Yes, I am referrencing 70′s pop schlock. Sue me) A young couple with kids asked Ricardo Montalban if he could provide them the wholesome and pure experience of living amongst the Puritans of early 17th century New England. No problem sez Ricardo. Well, I forget the whole storyline, but I do remember that they really suffered under the Puritans because they were not righteous enough, and they begged Ricardo to end the Fantasy after spending some time in the stocks for heresy.

Sure, it was a dopey show, but it made a point here. Some Christians have an idealized view of a supposedly wholesome past that I don’t think exists.

By: Pedro Timóteo

Pedro Timóteo — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:03:28 +0000

While I agree with you that religion certainly isn’t the solution (and I mean it both in the “supernatural” sense (which doesn’t exist at all) and in the “morality” it teaches people), I have to disagree with you on blaming violent media instead.

I’ve been a gamer for 25 years, and I’m as un-violent as they come. I also love horror and war movies, and, again, I have never felt the urge to get a gun and go out kill strangers.

Don’t blame the media. Don’t blame “society”. If you want to blame anything, blame the parents, who are often too self-involved to take the slightest interest in their kids’ education… or, even better, blame the actual monsters who do the killing.

Why are we so afraid to admit that some people are really crazy, or simply monsters, and have to always look for an external cause instead?

By: honjii

honjii — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:07:35 +0000

They just don’t get it, probably never will. So much killing and persecution, so many wars fought in the name of religion. I posted on my blog (see Extreme Religion, Score God: Untold Millions,
Atheists: 0). Yet they keep insisting we need more of that good old time religion to fix everything and anything.

Mother nature has many ways of keeping things in balance. I’m starting to wonder if perhaps we are evolving as an ever more violent species as a means of population control. (I know that’s pretty out there isn’t it?)

By: agnosticatheist

agnosticatheist — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:37:44 +0000

Chuck’s rant reminds me of a Carmen song in the 80s that blamed all of society’s woes on the removal of prayer from the public schools.