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	<title>Comments on: Christian Patriarchy and Women&#8217;s Self-Censorship</title>
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	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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		<title>By: mysteryofiniquity</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34707</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mysteryofiniquity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34707</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You wrote: &quot;just as I proceeded to attack you for your odd praise for the downfall of our civilization.&quot; 

Let&#039;s be clear here. My writing about eliminating the misogyny of fundamentalism in my post was my view. My response to your attack was a tongue in cheek attempt to show the absurdity of your assumption about what I said. I neither said nor did what I write in my post imply what you assume it implies. This is entirely your assumption taken from your own ideology and from your own interpretation of my post. Please keep it there. 

You obviously hold in contempt all who hold views different from your own narrow mindset. I no longer wish to provide a forum for such hatred.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wrote: &#8220;just as I proceeded to attack you for your odd praise for the downfall of our civilization.&#8221; </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s be clear here. My writing about eliminating the misogyny of fundamentalism in my post was my view. My response to your attack was a tongue in cheek attempt to show the absurdity of your assumption about what I said. I neither said nor did what I write in my post imply what you assume it implies. This is entirely your assumption taken from your own ideology and from your own interpretation of my post. Please keep it there. </p>
<p>You obviously hold in contempt all who hold views different from your own narrow mindset. I no longer wish to provide a forum for such hatred.</p>
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		<title>By: EK</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34705</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You did it again, mystery. You change my argument to say what you want it to say so that it sounds like I contradict myself:

&quot;wasn&#039;t attacking you&quot;. 

Wasn&#039;t = past tense...I was referring to my first post.

However, in that second post, while responding to your assertion that there is no correlation between running around having protected sex for pleasure and the breaking down of the family and morality, I WAS attacking you, just as I proceeded to attack you for your odd praise for the downfall of our civilization. 

To be honest though, if I was 49, had done my part in society, raised children and was looking around, seeing the younger generation not giving a damn, maybe I wouldn&#039;t either.


Reg - I don&#039;t have to &quot;trick&quot; anyone, unless it somehow occured to you that telling people to open their eyes and look around is a trick. This isn&#039;t about &quot;submission and control&quot;, either, but I can see how someone who subscribes to gender war doctrine would be inclined to think it is. It&#039;s simple: reproduce or perish. Muslims are reproducing, .Europeans are not. Other peoples are sticking to their own kind and would rally against group persecution if they had to, Europeans don&#039;t. European women are competing with men and deciding no have very few or no children. Everything here is a product of the spirit of the age, the idea that community does not matter and individual freedom is one thousand times more important than what is best for everyone. Look around: the recession, the overloaning, the outsourcing, the nat&#039;l community disintegration, the low birthrate, the empty/backward culture, the terrorism, the domestic terrorism, hyperindividualism...it all goes back to the ideology.

The article you forwarded to me, http://tinyurl.com/acx4td,  is a joke. Basically, it comes down to this: a man is writing on behalf of the corrupt, flawed system and is here to defend not the Western European people, but the system that is destroying them; he wants Muslims to give up the values and ideas that put them in a position to overtake us because our system has reduced our nations to shit, and he calls for more of the same forward-march trampling of the European, Christian-styled volk community in the name of a lame, pseudo-identity of &quot;citizen&quot;. He talks about citizenship and loyalty, yet he targets only the Muslims, easy prey, without discussing the real threat of national subversion, represented by the dual-citizenship status of Mossad agents, as well as the powerful pro-Israel crowd, from AIPAC to Penac, from Bush Sr. to Hillary Clinton, to all the bought-out politicians who claim to represent America. He makes no mention of the companies which feed off of American wealth and dump their earnings into Israel, from McDonalds to Loreal, from Coca-Cola to Starbucks and on and on the list goes. Had he said that, he never would have been published. Instead he writes about defending the &quot;Judeo-Christian&quot; West, a laughable juxtaposition, considering the West has become the antithesis of anything Christian.

Part of me hopes the Muslims win. I don&#039;t think our people are worthy of living. And that your argument degenerates into Nazi-this Nazi-that reducto ad Hitlerum blather is typical; it is about the only thing the majority of the West knows how to do anymore. Even the anti-Muslim people resort to the same bullshit, calling the Islamists Nazis, while being called Nazis themselves. It is pathetic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You did it again, mystery. You change my argument to say what you want it to say so that it sounds like I contradict myself:</p>
<p>&#8220;wasn&#8217;t attacking you&#8221;. </p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t = past tense&#8230;I was referring to my first post.</p>
<p>However, in that second post, while responding to your assertion that there is no correlation between running around having protected sex for pleasure and the breaking down of the family and morality, I WAS attacking you, just as I proceeded to attack you for your odd praise for the downfall of our civilization. </p>
<p>To be honest though, if I was 49, had done my part in society, raised children and was looking around, seeing the younger generation not giving a damn, maybe I wouldn&#8217;t either.</p>
<p>Reg &#8211; I don&#8217;t have to &#8220;trick&#8221; anyone, unless it somehow occured to you that telling people to open their eyes and look around is a trick. This isn&#8217;t about &#8220;submission and control&#8221;, either, but I can see how someone who subscribes to gender war doctrine would be inclined to think it is. It&#8217;s simple: reproduce or perish. Muslims are reproducing, .Europeans are not. Other peoples are sticking to their own kind and would rally against group persecution if they had to, Europeans don&#8217;t. European women are competing with men and deciding no have very few or no children. Everything here is a product of the spirit of the age, the idea that community does not matter and individual freedom is one thousand times more important than what is best for everyone. Look around: the recession, the overloaning, the outsourcing, the nat&#8217;l community disintegration, the low birthrate, the empty/backward culture, the terrorism, the domestic terrorism, hyperindividualism&#8230;it all goes back to the ideology.</p>
<p>The article you forwarded to me, <a href="http://tinyurl.com/acx4td" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/acx4td</a>,  is a joke. Basically, it comes down to this: a man is writing on behalf of the corrupt, flawed system and is here to defend not the Western European people, but the system that is destroying them; he wants Muslims to give up the values and ideas that put them in a position to overtake us because our system has reduced our nations to shit, and he calls for more of the same forward-march trampling of the European, Christian-styled volk community in the name of a lame, pseudo-identity of &#8220;citizen&#8221;. He talks about citizenship and loyalty, yet he targets only the Muslims, easy prey, without discussing the real threat of national subversion, represented by the dual-citizenship status of Mossad agents, as well as the powerful pro-Israel crowd, from AIPAC to Penac, from Bush Sr. to Hillary Clinton, to all the bought-out politicians who claim to represent America. He makes no mention of the companies which feed off of American wealth and dump their earnings into Israel, from McDonalds to Loreal, from Coca-Cola to Starbucks and on and on the list goes. Had he said that, he never would have been published. Instead he writes about defending the &#8220;Judeo-Christian&#8221; West, a laughable juxtaposition, considering the West has become the antithesis of anything Christian.</p>
<p>Part of me hopes the Muslims win. I don&#8217;t think our people are worthy of living. And that your argument degenerates into Nazi-this Nazi-that reducto ad Hitlerum blather is typical; it is about the only thing the majority of the West knows how to do anymore. Even the anti-Muslim people resort to the same bullshit, calling the Islamists Nazis, while being called Nazis themselves. It is pathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: Reg Webb</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34703</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reg Webb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 13:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This guy EK seems to be practising the old reductionist trick of reducing someone else&#039;s bid for freedom to selfishness in order to make his own case easier to advance.

Of course, if you have freedom of choice, you can make narrow self-regarding choices which ignore the feelings of others, and our interdependence as human beings.  But that doesn&#039;t mean that these are the choices that an individual will make.

It would be equally easy for me to suggest that EK believes in proper obedient &quot;accompanying&quot; women because he, as a male, happens to profit from that particular arrangement.

We can choose to have a constructive debate rather than a war.

rather than blame women who don&#039;t do as they&#039;re told for the ills of Western society which is apparently shortly to be over-run by EK&#039;s apocalyptic vision of the Islamic menace, why don&#039;t we all think about what we all cherish in our shared cultural values, and how those very values might be our best means of doing any defending that needs to be done, as in this article:
http://tinyurl.com/acx4td

Surely this is more productive than slagging women off because they mysteriously refuse to obey their master&#039;s voice.

It&#039;s very tempting to invoke the natural law to get people to do what we want them to do.  Nazi eugenics anyone?
Hitler could have shown those Asians the door right?  The door to the gas chamber in his case.  Advancing the Master Race is great if you happen to be in it.  Genocide with honour.

Am I unjustly ascribing all kinds of false agendas here?  That&#039;s what happens EK if you make too many assumptions.  Let&#039;s all stop doing it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This guy EK seems to be practising the old reductionist trick of reducing someone else&#8217;s bid for freedom to selfishness in order to make his own case easier to advance.</p>
<p>Of course, if you have freedom of choice, you can make narrow self-regarding choices which ignore the feelings of others, and our interdependence as human beings.  But that doesn&#8217;t mean that these are the choices that an individual will make.</p>
<p>It would be equally easy for me to suggest that EK believes in proper obedient &#8220;accompanying&#8221; women because he, as a male, happens to profit from that particular arrangement.</p>
<p>We can choose to have a constructive debate rather than a war.</p>
<p>rather than blame women who don&#8217;t do as they&#8217;re told for the ills of Western society which is apparently shortly to be over-run by EK&#8217;s apocalyptic vision of the Islamic menace, why don&#8217;t we all think about what we all cherish in our shared cultural values, and how those very values might be our best means of doing any defending that needs to be done, as in this article:<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/acx4td" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/acx4td</a></p>
<p>Surely this is more productive than slagging women off because they mysteriously refuse to obey their master&#8217;s voice.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s very tempting to invoke the natural law to get people to do what we want them to do.  Nazi eugenics anyone?<br />
Hitler could have shown those Asians the door right?  The door to the gas chamber in his case.  Advancing the Master Race is great if you happen to be in it.  Genocide with honour.</p>
<p>Am I unjustly ascribing all kinds of false agendas here?  That&#8217;s what happens EK if you make too many assumptions.  Let&#8217;s all stop doing it.</p>
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		<title>By: mysteryofiniquity</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34694</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mysteryofiniquity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[EK,

You say you aren&#039;t attacking me and then you proceed to do just that. For someone who chastises my assumptions you sure do make a lot of them yourself! But your words speak louder about your misinformed discomfort than anything I could possibly say. I realize how hard it is to cast aside the indoctrination. I can only pray you grow out of it as I have. Peace.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EK,</p>
<p>You say you aren&#8217;t attacking me and then you proceed to do just that. For someone who chastises my assumptions you sure do make a lot of them yourself! But your words speak louder about your misinformed discomfort than anything I could possibly say. I realize how hard it is to cast aside the indoctrination. I can only pray you grow out of it as I have. Peace.</p>
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		<title>By: EK</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34690</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mystery, I was not attacking you or even saying that this sort picture I painted describes you. However, the ideas you promote are part of the same imaginary &quot;gender war&quot; which was invented solely to divide our people and is completely destructive.

&quot;Anyone who equates women’s orgasms with producing babies has got to have his tin foil hat on backwards.&quot;

That has to be about the stupidest interpretation of anything I have ever written. Are you denying that women (and men) have not put themselves out of commission for the sake of sleeping around and getting their rocks off? But maybe this is more about the generation after you (30+, no children, never will have them) and mine than yours, statistically.

&quot;Coming from someone like you who obviously feels so threatened by it, that means the world to me. Guys (and gals?) like you make my work worthwhile [...]...If I knew breaking down the structures of society was going to be that easy or that annoying to EK and his ilk, I would have started long ago!&quot;

Be careful what you wish for. Or are you only capable of seeing things in the context of an imaginary gender war?

I know, I know, get out the clorox wash. It is too hard to think about something that seems so disconnected from your personal life and your own struggle to overcome your reservations to hating men -- after, I&#039;m imagining, men who only cared about themselves did you wrong. And by the way, for someone who seems to care a whole lot about women&#039;s rights, maybe you should put down the clorox when confronted with facts about Islamicization, birth rates and restrictive government.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mystery, I was not attacking you or even saying that this sort picture I painted describes you. However, the ideas you promote are part of the same imaginary &#8220;gender war&#8221; which was invented solely to divide our people and is completely destructive.</p>
<p>&#8220;Anyone who equates women’s orgasms with producing babies has got to have his tin foil hat on backwards.&#8221;</p>
<p>That has to be about the stupidest interpretation of anything I have ever written. Are you denying that women (and men) have not put themselves out of commission for the sake of sleeping around and getting their rocks off? But maybe this is more about the generation after you (30+, no children, never will have them) and mine than yours, statistically.</p>
<p>&#8220;Coming from someone like you who obviously feels so threatened by it, that means the world to me. Guys (and gals?) like you make my work worthwhile [...]&#8230;If I knew breaking down the structures of society was going to be that easy or that annoying to EK and his ilk, I would have started long ago!&#8221;</p>
<p>Be careful what you wish for. Or are you only capable of seeing things in the context of an imaginary gender war?</p>
<p>I know, I know, get out the clorox wash. It is too hard to think about something that seems so disconnected from your personal life and your own struggle to overcome your reservations to hating men &#8212; after, I&#8217;m imagining, men who only cared about themselves did you wrong. And by the way, for someone who seems to care a whole lot about women&#8217;s rights, maybe you should put down the clorox when confronted with facts about Islamicization, birth rates and restrictive government.</p>
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		<title>By: mysteryofiniquity</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34688</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mysteryofiniquity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OSS,

Yes. You know in my 49 years, I certainly haven&#039;t thought about any of the things EK brings up. In fact, I&#039;m an empty headed little old female with three grown children who&#039;s avoiding childrearing in favor of breaking down society by any means possible! If I knew breaking down the structures of society was going to be that easy or that annoying to EK and his ilk, I would have started long ago! :-D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OSS,</p>
<p>Yes. You know in my 49 years, I certainly haven&#8217;t thought about any of the things EK brings up. In fact, I&#8217;m an empty headed little old female with three grown children who&#8217;s avoiding childrearing in favor of breaking down society by any means possible! If I knew breaking down the structures of society was going to be that easy or that annoying to EK and his ilk, I would have started long ago! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: OneSmallStep</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34687</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OneSmallStep]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I always enjoy being told what I really want/feel by someone who has only encountered me for three seconds on the Internet.  You know, as opposed to letting me explain what I want or how I feel ... me who has lived with myself for twenty-seven years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always enjoy being told what I really want/feel by someone who has only encountered me for three seconds on the Internet.  You know, as opposed to letting me explain what I want or how I feel &#8230; me who has lived with myself for twenty-seven years.</p>
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		<title>By: mysteryofiniquity</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34682</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mysteryofiniquity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 00:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34682</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LeoP,

That&#039;s what I thought. I&#039;m sorry. Would you like an anti-bacterial wipe? :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LeoP,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I thought. I&#8217;m sorry. Would you like an anti-bacterial wipe? <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: LeoPardus</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeoPardus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 00:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since you mentioned it MOI, I looked at his website.  Now I want a clorox wash for my brain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you mentioned it MOI, I looked at his website.  Now I want a clorox wash for my brain.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mysteryofiniquity</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mysteryofiniquity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/christian-patriarchy-and-womens-self-censorship/#comment-34680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[HIS,

I think he&#039;s just shilling for his website. Bet that&#039;s a treat as well. Anyone who equates women&#039;s orgasms with producing babies has got to have his tin foil hat on backwards. 

 It&#039;s kind of sad if it wasn&#039;t so funny.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HIS,</p>
<p>I think he&#8217;s just shilling for his website. Bet that&#8217;s a treat as well. Anyone who equates women&#8217;s orgasms with producing babies has got to have his tin foil hat on backwards. </p>
<p> It&#8217;s kind of sad if it wasn&#8217;t so funny.</p>
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