I think that if you say that the Bible, Christianity, or Jesus’ precepts that he preached is the cause for the holy wars and deaths of many people is similar to the ill someone does if they were to say technology is responsible for the deaths of armies and innocent people because of advancements like machine guns, high level explosives, and such - its just the wrong way of putting it. Specifically Christ said that no man should resist an evil person.

It’s the interpretation it goes through when taken into military and politics - Christianity is a not a call to raise up violently and, sadly, whether youre an atheist or a believer, im sure we all do agree it has had an extreme cost on all of humanity.

You must be joking. NT Wright is a well known religious conservative who believes the gospels are eyewitness accounts and Jesus was actually resurrected. He fits easily into the conservative camp; he’s one its biggest champions! As for my claims being “speculative” I suggest you pick up any mainstream NT text, not a far-right conservative like NT Wright, whose works are methodologically impoverished. In the extreme.

Interesting… you claim not to know of any NT scholars who believe in the historicity of the gospels, and yet when I mention one, you say that he is not credible precisely because he believes in the historicity of the gospels. Seems rather circular to me.

Your only argument against him seems to be that he is “conservative” (3 times in one paragraph?!) and yet I don’t see how slapping a label on someone says anything about whether or not their scholarship is valid or their views are correct. I could just as easily label (and thereby dismiss?) your views as “liberal” - but I don’t see what that has to do with the actual arguments or issues at hand.

At every turn of the page, some naysayer will postulate a theory, throw it into the ring and watch doubt and insecurity spread like wild fire.

The Bible IS his word…and Im sure what he wanted told is in there. The more study I do, the more ratification of the scriptures I find.

That said, have a pleasant evening..
G

Even if it was ‘paraphrasing’ from older texts (which I have some doubts about since I am not sure how readily avaialble the Septuagint was in Christian circles - there seems to be little proof for this idea). In english if I am re-itterating a story about a certian person like King Jr. for example - it is more than likely a few of my sentences will match up with another’s. That being said, maybe the writer’s (or later writers) are doing what we now call ‘quoting’ for comparison reasons.

For me the most plausible thing is the disciples wrote and knew the stories from the synangogue - and likely remebered them (having no copies readily available in their home). Then when they wrote about Jesus (or maybe even Jesus himself made these comparisons) they wrote of the Tanakh characters and Jesus - and it’s no wonder some texts match up so excellently (both being greek versions of the passage). MInd you from the examples in that link - only some words match up - not whole stringing patterns.

As for the stories matching up with Elisha and Elijah and other facets of the Tanakh - does it mean Jesus never did what he is claimed of doing? The stories are similar but they are slightly different also - even people of Jesus’ day (according to the gospels) compare him with Elijah and ‘the prophet’ (ie: Moses). One might not have to wonder why if these examples happened and were seen. Which seems to be half the point the disciples are making with the writings. I am not saying the similarities aren’t there - I think they are - but they also have Jesus as someone in the newer version as a point - that maybe a Jewish viewer might more readily understand than us. (possibly proving jewish writers and not greeks - except for Luke).

You can find several such examples here:

http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/mirc1.htm

Hi Society. I had an early commentator on my site who claimed the same thing and had a link to an artcle he wrote on this topic. It compared the stories of Jesus and Elijah healing a blind girl (I think it was that miracle if memory serves) - and he had photo copied the Greek passages of both stories into his article to show that there were portions that were in fact identical.

I wanted to site that article here, but wouldn’t you know it, that article is now gone and the link is dead.

Sheeesh, now I feel like the guy who saw Bigfoot, but the film in my camera was overexposed, and the rain washed the tracks away. “But I saw him! I really did!”

I would ask something quite simple - how easy was it to get a copy of that Septuagint to copy from? And when was this done?

“And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.” (Micheal)

Can’t this as easily be attributed to scribal mistake - to borrow from Ehrman an idea. Possibly the (and ‘ ‘kai’ was added in by a scribe - then the tenses to make it look right? Its funny cause there is 2 horses there - and yet Jesus only goes on one (unless he had a leg on both of them). I also just re-read Zech 9:9 (it could be that both were asked for?) “and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.” MIs-reading or not - that’s a tricky one.

I guess I have little problem with believing the stories were written with some literary techniques but relating a story that happened.

**As a Christian, this response is disappointing at the end of weliftthemup’s post.** Thank you for saying that. I’m glad that your viewpoint isn’t ‘black and white.’ (In some areas, I’m sure it is, as it is for everyone. But at least you’re not putting all of humanity in black or white categories).