Ancient writers often used certain literary and narrative devices to artificially adjust their reports to reflect specific themes, or to save space (in a time when paper was scarce and expensive).

wow. unbelievable…

Thank you.

Yeah, until recently I didn’t think Christians were like that. My impression of them before I moved into the US was that they tended to be less religious than Muslims, but some of them are literally on an equal footing. And that’s very discomforting! M

Yes, it really is. And actually, while the mainstream culture of the U.S. tends to be fairly secular, the really religious Christians are getting MORE conservative and separatist and gaining more political power and influence than they had even 20-30 years ago.

If you look at the homeschooling movement, the “purity” and abstinence movements that emphasize modesty and virginity (mostly for women, of course), the theocracy movement and the creationism crowd – it’s really rather scary. There’s considerable debate on how many people are involved, how much influence they truly have, and whether they are starting to lose support in the last few years, but still it’s something to be wary of, from my perspective.

Ahhhhh yes! We have also been getting that a LOT. Hell, we’ve been declared to be “enemies of Islam” by certain “moderate Muslims” out there.

Heh, heh. Fun, isn’t it? I’ve learned to become rather sanguine about it, but at first it was really hurtful and made me very angry to be treated so disrespectfully.

Well, we’re all planning to write out stories about why we left Islam.

Cool! I’ll be watching for that – sounds fascinating. I wonder if we’ll have many of the same reasons in common, or if the motivations will be very different? I’ll stay tuned.

In fact a Southern Baptist Pastor who’s doing his masters in “Muslim Studies” was virtually cartwheeling when he discovered our existence and wanted us to write him our stories. We haven’t done that yet… we’re kind of suspicious of him because we don’t want to inadvertently help one religious group harass another religious group based on OUR experience, if you know what I mean.

Yes, exactly. I’d echo HIS in saying that you should be very cautious of this pastor. I don’t know him, so he may just be motivated by compassion and respectful dialogue, but Southern Baptists tend to be evangelicals and fundamentalists. And their highest calling is proselytizing and conversion – and they can be very agressive and frankly even deceptive – as a means to an end to “bring more people to Christ.”

And believe me, getting an ex-Muslim into the Christian fold would be QUITE an exciting “catch” for them!

You know, something I’ve realized is that reading why and how Christians left their religion is readily acceptable to Muslims… but since the two religions run an almost parallel course, eventually such Muslims realize the similarities – which help them to doubt their OWN beliefs as well.

I’m sure it could work vice versa… We could benefit each other this way.

Agreed. I imagine there’s an intellectual process on both sides that perhaps starts with an emotional realization. At least that’s what seems to be the pattern in Christian deconversion stories that I’ve read. I think your stories will be very interesting for readers from all religious and non-religious backgrounds.

Yeah, until recently I didn’t think Christians were like that. My impression of them before I moved into the US was that they tended to be less religious than Muslims, but some of them are literally on an equal footing. And that’s very discomforting!

“This is why ex-Christians make certain Christians today very, very uncomfortable – to the point where they have to deny that we ever were “true” Christians in the first”

Ahhhhh yes! We have also been getting that a LOT. Hell, we’ve been declared to be “enemies of Islam” by certain “moderate Muslims” out there. They even insist that we believe Ruport Murdoch is our “new god”, just because we criticize Islam! And we couldn’t be less conservative than we are…!!! lol…

“Yes, I’m sure it does. What has become of your relationship with your family and friends who are still believers? Do you find yourself estranged from them; are you open about your apostasy? Just curious.”

Well, we’re all planning to write out stories about why we left Islam. In fact a Southern Baptist Pastor who’s doing his masters in “Muslim Studies” was virtually cartwheeling when he discovered our existence and wanted us to write him our stories. We haven’t done that yet… we’re kind of suspicious of him because we don’t want to inadvertently help one religious group harass another religious group based on OUR experience, if you know what I mean.

But we are going to write our stories and in mine, I will include my background relationships and almost all the social areas of my life that were affected by apostatizing. You’ll have to wait for it though…

___

You know, something I’ve realized is that reading why and how Christians left their religion is readily acceptable to Muslims… but since the two religions run an almost parallel course, eventually such Muslims realize the similarities – which help them to doubt their OWN beliefs as well.

I’m sure it could work vice versa… We could benefit each other this way.

I can so relate to what you said here:

I can personally tell you that pre-9/11 we could not even concieve of a muslim leaving Islam! the indoctrination was so profound, complex and just generally “well done”, that we would personally chastise ourselves for even remotely doubting Islam. Note, i say “islam” instead of “doubting our RELIGION”, because islam is in most ways, a civilization, a culture… a literal way of life. not merely a belief.

I could really replace your words “muslim” and “islam” above with “fundamentalist, born-again Christian” and describe the culture I came from. One thing that fundy Christians will hasten to tell you is that they don’t have a “religion” they have a “relationship with Jesus” that permeates their entire lives.

So, I can really relate to what you’re talking about when you say that until recently no one could even conceive of someone leaving Islam. As a fundy Christian I could not even imagine someone leaving Christianity either – unthinkable! This is why ex-Christians make certain Christians today very, very uncomfortable – to the point where they have to deny that we ever were “true” Christians in the first place. (Something we’ve experienced here on this blog.)

which makes apostatizing an insanely difficult process because of severe social ostracization!

Yes, I’m sure it does. What has become of your relationship with your family and friends who are still believers? Do you find yourself estranged from them; are you open about your apostasy? Just curious.