de-conversion

33 Comments Add your own

• 1. Noogatiger  |  June 15, 2007 at 3:55 pm

  “It makes sense to me that a holy God cannot accept us as imperfect as we are because it is against his nature. God cannot accept our sinful nature any more than water can mix with oil.”

  However even this statement has philosophical problems. Did good and evil, righteousness and sin as laws or precepts, precede even God? If not then what makes God Holy? What makes sin bad? If in the beginning only God existed, then holiness did not exist and sin did not exist and good and evil did not exist, nothing existed but the entity which was God, and then he created all the stuff and then decided for himself what is holy and what is not. He picked what he liked and called it holy and good, he picked what he did not like and called it sin and evil. He could just have easily decided that he liked the sin, (as we call it), and made that holy in his eyes.

  So God could accept our sinful nature if he wanted to, easily. He could make water and oil mix if he wanted to. He could decide to bring everyone to paradise if he so desired.

  The more you look at it from a logical viewpoint the less sense it makes and the harder it becomes to keep believing, even if you still want to. I wanted to also, but finally had to have some peace in my mind. When I gave up the fairy tales, I found peace of mind.

• 2. Jeff de Ruyter  |  June 15, 2007 at 4:14 pm

  Many have intellectually evaluated the faith, and stayed in it. Like myself. It is an intellectual decision at first. C.S. Lewis is another one who comes to mind.

• 3. BlackSun  |  June 15, 2007 at 4:22 pm

  HelsSailing, I understand your grieving. Here is the conclusion of a post I wrote about letting go of trust in parents, god, country, meaning, and notions of free will (beyond the range of genetically selected behaviors):

  Though I draw a firm “line in the sand” intellectually, I admit it’s hard to keep stoic all the time about these questions. I miss the idea I used to hold that there’s a giant all-powerful father-mother-god to fall back on, that life itself has any particular meaning other than what I give it. I miss feeling like I live in a country I can believe in–or even that government itself is something to inspire faith and trust. I miss being the young boy who trusted my parents, and felt they loved and cared for me–and I miss the idea of my own humanity and ultimate free will.

  But the evidence is in. These things are illusory. Acknowledging this is part of being a conscious adult in this century. My longings for childlike simplicity and trust will die with me anyway. So why not live a life of clarity for the years I have left? Why not face the music and embrace reality? It’s called growing up. With a certain wistful resolve and nostalgia about my childhood illusions, I’m ready to firmly say with John Lennon: “I just had to let it go.”

• 4. superhappyjen  |  June 15, 2007 at 9:43 pm

  I don’t want to believe in God, but I do want to be awed. I want to look at something unexplainable and be filled with awe.

• 5. Heather  |  June 15, 2007 at 11:45 pm

  HIS –

  From how I’m reading this, it sounds like you still want to believe in a fundamentalist/conservative aspect of Christianity? Does this mean that’s the only way you could accept Christianity?

• 6. agnosticatheist  |  June 16, 2007 at 12:37 am

  Heather,

  I tried to cling to Christianity while not believing in the “fundamentalist/conservative aspect of Christianity” and failed. For me, once my former beliefs started to collapse, it just kept going until the building totally crumbled.

  I think you can be left with a belief in a real Jesus who was a teacher of a philosophy based on Jewish teachings and you can apply that philosophy to your life but everything else pretty much crumbles. So you can stay a Jesus-ite, so to speak, but Christianity is based on a flawed system of Jewish mysticism that is no different than any other religious tradition.

  aA

• 7. HeIsSailing  |  June 16, 2007 at 12:40 am

  Heather,
  No, I can never beleive in my Fundamentalist belief system ever again, and have no desire to.

  I do want to believe in a universal Messiah. My stagename HeIsSailing reflects that desire if you understand where that name came from. I think maybe everyone sort of hopes for a Savior at some level. A frequent commentator at my old blog used to say that we must believe because the world *needs* a Savior. I would not go that far, but I understand that need for wanting a kind of salvation.

  I wanted to continue believing in Santa Claus even after I knew the truth. Fantasy has a certain power to it that is undeniably there for me, but hard to explain.

• 8. agnosticatheist  |  June 16, 2007 at 12:45 am

  HIS,

  The Gospel story is a beautiful story, and the fabric of it is very plausible to me. If God exists, I expect him to be transcendent, perfectly holy and separate from us. I fully understand the ancient writers when they say we are sinful and imperfect beings next to a perfect Divinity! It makes sense to me that a holy God cannot accept us as imperfect as we are because it is against his nature. God cannot accept our sinful nature any more than water can mix with oil. So he sent a part of himself, The Christ named Jesus, to suffer and die to provide whatever mysterious mechanism that is required for us to join him in paradise.

  I used to think this but now, not so much. The more I think about it, if God is making the rules, why did he need a BLOOD sacrifice in order to forgive man’s sin? He could have just as easily accepted Cain’s offering. After all, God suppose to look at the HEART. Isn’t that what is important? Why would he need to die to appease himself? Why does it take me believing that God raised Jesus from the dead to be saved? Wouldn’t it make more sense to say, I realize I’m a sinner and I accept God’s help to change my heart? What does all the mystic stuff have to do with my actions? Me believing in a man dying on a cross and raising from the dead has nothing to do with how I live my life. Shouldn’t that be the important thing? God could just as easily forgive my sin if I have a genuine heart to follow him. Hell, to say Bob Tilton is going to go to heaven because he “accepted Christ” but Ghandi is going to hell because he didn’t is not a religion I want to follow.

  BTW, great post. It really shows our struggle and why we keep talking about Christianity. I have to confess that I still listen to Christian music

  aA

• 9. Dave  |  June 16, 2007 at 6:40 am

  Great piece!

  I’d like to request permission to cross post this to ExChristian.net.

  If that’s a possibility, let me know. Thanks! CLICK HERE

• 10. mysteryofiniquity  |  June 16, 2007 at 7:50 am

  HIS,

  I think I’m stuck at this point:

  “That is the dilemma. Do I continue to be a Christian who pretends all is well, or do I follow my convictions and leave what I know is not true? I figure if there is a God, he knows my heart and knows I do not believe. So why pretend? It seems honesty is more noble then putting up a front of piety.”

  I’m not sure how to get out of it. It’s like a spiritual depression or something.

• 11. HeIsSailing  |  June 16, 2007 at 9:42 am

  Noogatiger sez:
  “So God could accept our sinful nature if he wanted to, easily. He could make water and oil mix if he wanted to. He could decide to bring everyone to paradise if he so desired.”

  agnosticatheist sez:
  “The more I think about it, if God is making the rules, why did he need a BLOOD sacrifice in order to forgive man’s sin? ”

  Oh yeah, I agree with both of you. The Gospel is a beautiful story to me on the surface. Wow, God loved me THAT much! But the more I think about it, the more implausible it gets.

  If you want to watch a Christian squirm, ask the following question: As God is the standard of ‘goodness’ and what defines sin, does he define that standard himself, or is he bound by that standard due to some outside agent? Either choice presents problems to the Christian. If God sets the standard for sin he sets the rules for atonement. He can atone any way he wishes, thus no need for a sacrifice. If he is bound by some outside agent, he is not omnipotent.

  That paradox in itself makes the logic of the Gospel implausible to me.

  ****************************
  superhappyjen sez:
  “I don’t want to believe in God, but I do want to be awed. I want to look at something unexplainable and be filled with awe.”

  Being filled with awe and wonder is part of my worship. Do you know that I am still filled with that sense, even without the presence of God? I have to write an article about it soon.

  **********************************
  MysteryOfIniquity sez:
  “I think I’m stuck at this point:
  I’m not sure how to get out of it. It’s like a spiritual depression or something.”

  Don’t get me wrong! I am not at all depressed. I just contemplate and wonder sometimes. I just figure that I cannot believe in God (especially God of the Bible) any more than I can believe in Zeus. You or I cannot be forced to believe in anything that is otherwise mythical. So why pretend? If God is really reading my thoughts, he knows I don’t believe. And I have peace with that.

  ***********************************

  Dave asks:
  “I’d like to request permission to cross post this to ExChristian.net.”

  Sure, thanks. It is not much of a de-conversion story, but you can print it there at ex-christian.

• 12. mysteryofiniquity  |  June 16, 2007 at 9:55 am

  HIS,

  I wasn’t saying you were depressed. I was saying I was spiritually depressed because I’m stuck at that point also!

• 13. HeIsSailing  |  June 16, 2007 at 10:09 am

  MOI,
  I would like to know more about spiritual depression and your other thoughts on this. I guess this is something I can relate too. Maybe you can write an article about it soon. If you already have, can you plant a link here?

• 14. mysteryofiniquity  |  June 16, 2007 at 10:17 am

  HIS,
  Sure! I probably have written about it at some point. To me, it’s a bit like being manic (from what I’ve observed in my manic friends). You are spiritually high one minute and cursing God the next. I attribute it to detoxing, much like alcoholism. I suppose it would make a good post. Hmmm. Let me ruminate.

• 15. Spiritual Depression and &hellip  |  June 16, 2007 at 11:18 am

  [...] 16th, 2007 In a recent post here HeIsSailing offered this wonderful glimpse into his soul: But I want to believe. I want to believe that there is hope for us here on earth, comfort for the [...]

• 16. Karen  |  June 16, 2007 at 2:08 pm

  I tried to cling to Christianity while not believing in the “fundamentalist/conservative aspect of Christianity” and failed. For me, once my former beliefs started to collapse, it just kept going until the building totally crumbled.

  Exactly the same thing for me. Once that foundation crumbled there was no way the rest of the building would stay standing. I know people who find ways to “jerry-rig” the structure and keep believing after they’ve undergone substantial changes to their beliefs, but for me there was no functional way to do that, and perhaps more importantly, no real emotional desire either. I would have felt like I was fooling myself once I recognized what I did about beliefs and evidence in general.

  HIS, I really empathize with your dilemma. I too went through a period of equal parts fear (of hell) and grieving. Thankfully, perhaps due to my personality traits, it didn’t last long. Maybe a year to 18 months, and then I really found my out of it. I think other people continue to grieve and feel that loss for much longer, which is perfectly understandable when you think about all the time, effort and energy you put into believing, but by all accounts it does dissipate over time.

  I like BlackSun’s contribution. (If you want to read an amazing deconversion story, check out his blog sometime!)

  I don’t want to believe in God, but I do want to be awed. I want to look at something unexplainable and be filled with awe.

  Jen, study astronomy and biology and physics (there are plenty of popular books and blogs on the subject, you don’t have to be an expert) and spend time in nature. I assure you, you’ll be filled with mystery and awe - not that god created all this, but that our universe is absolutely stunning and there’s still so much about it we don’t understand. And then think about where we were in terms of our knowledge just a couple hundred years ago, and where we’ve come just thanks to discovering the scientific method and you’ll be doubly awed and amazed.

  At least, I am!

• 17. hc  |  June 17, 2007 at 2:21 am

  Great post. My first steps away from Christianity were similar to those described here. Even as a child, I struggled to answer my own questions in a way that would preserve my faith. Around the age of nineteen I began to study a bit about Judaism, to which I considered converting. I read a particular piece of literature that suggested that one of the main differences between the two faiths was the appreciation of this life as opposed the next. It referenced some of the martyrs of the Christian religion, so quick to throw away their lives on earth for the paradise beyond. When illustrated this way, I saw the allure of Christianity so clearly. So tempting to never suffer the consequences of your mistakes. I couldn’t return to the Christian faith, yet occasionally I still feel fear and discomfort in the pit of my stomach at times, especially when I think of my grandmother, who passed away last year. However, I only have to think back to her funeral, when a man told us a story that made me sick: he went to her nursing home at the height of her terminal illness, and questioned her faith in Jesus because “he’d hate to see such a wonderful woman burn in hell.” If I hadn’t turned from the faith prior to that, his self-righteous speech would have done it in right then. Although I am agnostic, I too hope I can somehow spend eternity with my beloved grandmother… if there’s no room for true love without religious posturing, then I don’t want to believe in a heaven.

• 18. HeIsSailing  |  June 17, 2007 at 10:28 pm

  hc sez:
  “Although I am agnostic, I too hope I can somehow spend eternity with my beloved grandmother… if there’s no room for true love without religious posturing, then I don’t want to believe in a heaven.”

  You nailed it, hc. When my very old grandpa died a few years back, don’t think I did not wonder about his fate after he died. He was a huge influence on my life, a great man, and a Roman Catholic. Which in my church meant you were just as good as an atheist. But men in their 80s do not convert, and he was happy with his beliefs, but I still was afraid for him.

  DAMN!! All the energy and frustration and worry spent over the years worrying about the eternal fate of my loved ones!! What a waste!! It just is sickening, and I almost feel ashamed of myself for allowing myself to be led down that path for so long!!

• 19. Heather  |  June 17, 2007 at 10:34 pm

  **All the energy and frustration and worry spent over the years worrying about the eternal fate of my loved ones!! What a waste!! It just is sickening, and I almost feel ashamed of myself for allowing myself to be led down that path for so long!!**

  This makes me wonder how many questioning Christians are still ‘in the fold’ and not leaving for this very reason. If you’ve been in this mindset for twenty years, or even ten, leaving it would have to be terrifying because it can make your (general you, not you-you, HIS) life seem like a waste. Especially since the religion would dominate how one views the world.

• 20. Anonymous  |  June 17, 2007 at 11:18 pm

  DAMN!! All the energy and frustration and worry spent over the years worrying about the eternal fate of my loved ones!! What a waste!! It just is sickening, and I almost feel ashamed of myself for allowing myself to be led down that path for so long!!

  This is when the “anger” phase of leaving the fold starts to kick in. There’s fear and depression and denial and anger, plus a few other stages. I think the process compares to the seven stages of grief (was it 7?) articulated by Elizabeth Kubler Ross.

  Which makes sense, considering how much time we’ve devoted of our lives to this belief system.

  This makes me wonder how many questioning Christians are still ‘in the fold’ and not leaving for this very reason. If you’ve been in this mindset for twenty years, or even ten, leaving it would have to be terrifying because it can make your (general you, not you-you, HIS) life seem like a waste. Especially since the religion would dominate how one views the world.

  I know at least a couple people who have quietly deconverted but still attend church and haven’t outed themselves even to their spouses. They are afraid of the censure and disappointment of their family and friends.

• 21. HeIsSailing  |  June 17, 2007 at 11:27 pm

  Anonymous commenter sez:
  “I know at least a couple people who have quietly deconverted but still attend church and haven’t outed themselves even to their spouses. They are afraid of the censure and disappointment of their family and friends.”

  I still attend Catholic mass with my wife, but she is fully aware of what I do not believe. I just use it as a time to be with her in quiet meditation, and I am fine with that. 1 or 2 of her friends know, most of the others do not. I draw the line at partaking in the bread and wine. I will not participate in that ritual anymore.

• 22. hc  |  June 18, 2007 at 12:44 am

  “DAMN!! All the energy and frustration and worry spent over the years worrying about the eternal fate of my loved ones!! What a waste!! It just is sickening, and I almost feel ashamed of myself for allowing myself to be led down that path for so long!!”

  I definitely don’t think you should be ashamed of yourself. It’s natural to worry about those you love; if it isn’t religion, it’s that they aren’t eating healthily, etc. The problem occurs when one puts a greater value on someone’s lifestyle choices than on that person’s character. In this way, religion compels people to see others not in terms of accomplishments, humility, and integrity, but in how associating with said person will affect their afterlife. In my eyes, the worry and concern you extended to your family member was a sign of your affection, no less and no more. At the heart of it, a noble gesture, and you were with him in his time of need.

  “I still attend Catholic mass with my wife, but she is fully aware of what I do not believe. I just use it as a time to be with her in quiet meditation, and I am fine with that.”

  Do you feel at all uncomfortable in this sort of situation? It is my sincere hope that someday there will be a nonreligious community service establishment, where one can both devote time and money to the community, and study culture and theology without claiming one as superior to all others. But for now, my husband has been talking about finding a church. He is for the most part aware of my beliefs, and accepts me. I don’t want to take Christianity away from him. As unappealing as I find religion, he finds comfort in it. Knowing that you, HIS, can be accommodating and generous in this way makes me think I should do right by my husband and humor him. Do you find that you have to censor yourself when talking with the congregates? This is my main reservation. I was hoping you might share a bit about the experiences you’ve had at church as of late. ~warm regards~

• 23. HeIsSailing  |  June 18, 2007 at 8:43 am

  hc asks:
  “Do you feel at all uncomfortable in this sort of situation?”

  No I don’t, but everyone’s situation is different from mine. We had a home Bible study that I hosted, but I disbanded it several months ago. That was just making everything worse. We do attend Catholic mass about every other week. She leads the small choir once per month, so I just take it as a chance to support her, and hear her sing - and I enjoy that.

  I promised my wife that I would not discuss her beliefs on the internet, so making a reply to your questions is kind of tough, hc. I’ll just say that she has beliefs very different from mine, but she has them mostly because of tradition. Her religion forms part of her cultural identity. When I left Christianity, she was confused as to why, and many discussions and many tears later, we are both comfortable where we are at. I assured her that I do not love her, and I did not marry her because of her religious beliefs, and even though I left Christianity, that would not change who I am. We promised to respect each other’s convictions, but we also promised to keep open minds and not stonewall. We have both kept those promises and our marraige is very strong.

  hc sez:
  “I don’t want to take Christianity away from him. As unappealing as I find religion, he finds comfort in it. ”

  Oh yeah, I understand and agree with you. Just because I left Christianity does not mean I am out on *another* mission field to convert my wife away from her beliefs. I think we are going to end up in the same place after this life, so what is the point of conversion? I love her for who she is and would not change a thing. I hope you view your husband in the light also.

  hc continues:
  “It is my sincere hope that someday there will be a nonreligious community service establishment, where one can both devote time and money to the community, and study culture and theology without claiming one as superior to all others. ”

  I would like to try skipping Catholic mass once, and instead go to the Old Folks Home for those two hours. It would be nothing fancy, just go for a visit. Some of those people just love to share stories of their lives with anyone who will listen. If they ask what church I am from (the administrators always do), I will proudly say “none”. I tried doing this several times when I led a home bible study, but nobody really shared my enthusiasm for it, and the plan always ended in a bust. It was so maddening that these folks would rather read a few verses from Matthew 6 for the umpteenth time than go out and live them! I still have that conviction, and I think it would be a fine alternative to church. I would like to try it a few times and maybe have some old church friends join us too. It seems a fine alternative to attending a religious service on Sunday morning.

  hc asks:
  “Do you find that you have to censor yourself when talking with the congregates?”

  No, but I don’t go out of my way to express my views. If they ask, I will tell them. Recently, a family member accused our marraige of being illegitimate because I was no longer Christian. I tried my best to explain my position, but I confess I was pretty upset. Thanks for the questions and thoughts, hc. Maybe I will write an article about some of my experences since leaving Church, but like I said it is kind of tough since it all involves my wife too, and I don’t want to get her involved in this too much. Writing about leaving relgious convictions when spouses and children are involved is pretty tough.

• 24. Bible Miracles: 2,000,000&hellip  |  June 18, 2007 at 11:12 am

  [...] us to have faith in the truth—not in a lie, correct? As HeIsSailing said in his blog entry, “I want to believe” and a reflection of my own thoughts in this regard: “Belief without evidence is faith. Belief [...]

• 25. Tookshire  |  June 18, 2007 at 1:51 pm

  I don’t get it…perhaps there’s a nuaince to what you are saying that I’m missing because I do believe…but other than the desire for inclusion, what exactly are you wanting to believe for? What would be the purpose of the inclusion? Standing inside a faith doesn’t make one any more included/accepted (believe me, those with faith can claim minority status and illtreatment as well).

  Being Berean isn’t simply enough, in my opinion, if taken at our current “church” definition and understanding. Anyone who has been even slightly introduced to creed world views (not necessarily accepted or as a “believer” is already - and I realize this is my opinion, but I hold the opinion because I believe I’m correct - being dupped and unable to be Berean simply by a study, even of a scholarly level (vs simply reading on one’s own). (Sorry there’s a lot of noise here and it’s difficult to keep track of words.) Basically all the terms, thought processes, interpretations and definitions have been presupposed because said individual has, even at rejection of the final outcome, has completely bought into Constantinian processes. While I don’t think it impossible, I find that a doubter or an anthiest would have a difficult time with Faith (forget the Christian branding) in the God of Abraham because within the Christian mindset (no matter what denomination) almost everything about the God of Abraham has been removed, replaced, distorted, etc. so of *course* things would seem off kilter. But not, IMO, any more off kilter than a mindset or worldview of someone without faith.

• 26. Merdeen  |  June 19, 2007 at 8:13 am

  Hey HelsSailing,
  I think a post about “Awe” and “being Awed” would be great. If you do write one I’d be sure to read it, whatever the aspect of it
  I often find myself in awe of nature type things. It’s lovely when it happens.

• 27. curtis  |  June 26, 2007 at 9:44 am

  HeIsSailing-

  “It was so maddening that these folks would rather read a few verses from Matthew 6 for the umpteenth time than go out and live them! I still have that conviction, and I think it would be a fine alternative to church. I would like to try it a few times and maybe have some old church friends join us too. It seems a fine alternative to attending a religious service on Sunday morning.”

  I just want you to know, that I am a Christian, and I FULLY agree with you on this statement. Your insight on this matter is SPOT ON and I think that you probably have a better understanding of what following in the way of Jesus is about than most people who call themselves Christians do.

  Let me ask you this: if there were other people, like me, who shared your opinion concerning this, would you want to be around them? Even if they were Christians? Because if so, then in my book, and in my understanding of the Bible, that would be The Church.

  Great blog!

• 28. Heather  |  June 26, 2007 at 11:34 am

  Curtis,

  ** if there were other people, like me, who shared your opinion concerning this, would you want to be around them? Even if they were Christians? ** I would answer this with a whole-hearted yes. Those that show a concern for others, have a great peace about them and who listen, are kind and compassionate are wonderful to be around. It’s living out one’s faith, as opposed to just talking about it.

• 29. LeoPardus  |  September 21, 2007 at 11:32 pm

  HIS
  Criminy man. Another awesome post. I do so identify with what you say here. While I don’t share all the same objections to Christianity that you do, I would still love to believe. (And I’m sure my wife would like that too.)
  BTW, did you have kids to deal with in all this? That’s a problem for me.
  I don’t even know what the folks at church would say once they knew. Not so sure I really want to know.

• 30. HeIsSailing  |  September 23, 2007 at 5:16 am

  LeoPardus:

  Criminy man. Another awesome post. I do so identify with what you say here.

  Funny - I wrote this article 7 or 8 months ago as somebody who was currently undergoing a de-conversion, and I just now re-read it. Wow. My attitude has surely changed since then. While I do miss much of the Christian .. .. culture, for lack of a better word, I cannot say I miss believing the faith anymore. My wife and I are both following different spiritual paths, but we both understand each other the best that we can. Above all, we communicate, and are not afraid to talk about this kind of stuff with each other, and it makes it all easier to deal with. I don’t miss it much anymore, I have to say. It is like the pain has eased, and I am getting more comfortable in this new paradigm.

  BTW, did you have kids to deal with in all this?

  No, and in that sense I am lucky. I did not have kids to drag around during all this. I still sometimes attend Catholic mass, and even get involved in some of their non-evangelistic missions to Mexico (I live mere minutes from the border). But nobody needs to know my real beliefs. It is just not on my agenda. Only one or two people in my current church know, I keep it all to myself, and it works that way.

• 31. LeoPardus  |  September 23, 2007 at 4:55 pm

  Interesting. I’m keeping it to myself except for my wife and two people. She wants to see that it “sticks” for a year or two before I go public with it. I think if she understood, she’d know I wasn’t going back without a bona fide miracle or some such. But I think she’s afraid to face that herself.

  Funny the ways folks go. You don’t miss it much after 7-8 months. It’s been about a year since I gave up on it all. I still want to believe as you put it. But of course I can’t. ‘Cause it just ain’t true.

• 32. hmm  |  April 9, 2008 at 8:42 am

  18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. 19 As the Scriptures say,

  “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise
  and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”[e]

  20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22 It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23 So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.

  24 But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles,[f] Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.

  26 Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy[g] when God called you. 27 Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. 28 God chose things despised by the world,[h] things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. 29 As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.

  30 God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. 31 Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the Lord.”[i

  maybe we have a responsibility as thinking beings to analyze and question our beliefs before we accept them… but maybe we’re lost, you know? this passage is about accepting that God’s wisdom is greater than ours. how can we question something that is greather than us? isn’t faith about kneeling in submission, not to a tyrant who demands blood and complacency, but to a Wisdom far greater than our own– the Wisdom of untainted, unconditional love.

• 33. The Apostate  |  April 9, 2008 at 11:35 am

  this passage is about accepting that God’s wisdom is greater than ours. how can we question something that is greather than us?

  You know, God’s wisdom could be and should be greater than ours. But God didn’t write the Bible. God should also show himself to be more moral and mature than us. If you have read any bit of the Old Testament, he seems just the opposite. Yahweh’s nearest competition for morality is Zeus and for maturity, Loki.

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