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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;m not religious, I&#8217;m a Christian!</title>
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		<title>By: Kerberos</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-45652</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerberos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 22:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;What is this incessant need to disassociate Christianity from “religion?”
Is it because religion is too structured? Is religion barbaric? Is religion primitive and uncritical? What do these people mean when they say they are Christian, but not religious, or that the essence of Christianity is not religious. What do these Christians see about “religion” that makes them want to deny their religiousity?

Psychologically speaking, I am pretty sure it is an attempt to set Christianity apart from other religions.&quot;

## Close. When people - typically Evangelicals of some kind - say this, they are making a theological point: that religion is what man does to go to God in his own strength, whereas Christian faith, by contrast, is in a God who &quot;comes down&quot; to man, to do for him what he *cannot do* in his own strength. God acts like this, in perfect freedom, because He is a God of grace, whereas man, precisely by being religious, has been trying to recommend himself to God by relying on his own works, rather than on God&#039;s grace. What this means is that by being religious, man is digging himself deeper and deeper into the hole he is trying to escape from - &amp; his very religiousness, far from being good, is sin at its worst, because it gives him the deceitful pseudo-certainty that he can find peace with God without relying on God. 

It&#039;s a fairly basic Evangelical insight. With a lot of implications. More &quot;catholic&quot; types of Christianity have difficulty in accommodating the idea that Christianity is not a religion - they would be more liable to say that Christianity is religion in its true form, or something of the kind. 

The question of structures is not irrelevant, but Calvinism, which is Evangelical, has a very &quot;high&quot; doctrine of the Church, &amp; is very keen on the importance of church attendance. It also pays a lot of attention to Church discipline. Other sorts of Protestestant Evangelicalism have a rather sceptical attitude to the Church and its structures - this is very marked among Dispensationalists.  

Disclaimer: I&#039;m  Catholic, formerly Evangelical, and very Protestant in some ways, &amp; very sceptical in others.  

Hope that answers the question.   :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What is this incessant need to disassociate Christianity from “religion?”<br />
Is it because religion is too structured? Is religion barbaric? Is religion primitive and uncritical? What do these people mean when they say they are Christian, but not religious, or that the essence of Christianity is not religious. What do these Christians see about “religion” that makes them want to deny their religiousity?</p>
<p>Psychologically speaking, I am pretty sure it is an attempt to set Christianity apart from other religions.&#8221;</p>
<p>## Close. When people &#8211; typically Evangelicals of some kind &#8211; say this, they are making a theological point: that religion is what man does to go to God in his own strength, whereas Christian faith, by contrast, is in a God who &#8220;comes down&#8221; to man, to do for him what he *cannot do* in his own strength. God acts like this, in perfect freedom, because He is a God of grace, whereas man, precisely by being religious, has been trying to recommend himself to God by relying on his own works, rather than on God&#8217;s grace. What this means is that by being religious, man is digging himself deeper and deeper into the hole he is trying to escape from &#8211; &amp; his very religiousness, far from being good, is sin at its worst, because it gives him the deceitful pseudo-certainty that he can find peace with God without relying on God. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a fairly basic Evangelical insight. With a lot of implications. More &#8220;catholic&#8221; types of Christianity have difficulty in accommodating the idea that Christianity is not a religion &#8211; they would be more liable to say that Christianity is religion in its true form, or something of the kind. </p>
<p>The question of structures is not irrelevant, but Calvinism, which is Evangelical, has a very &#8220;high&#8221; doctrine of the Church, &amp; is very keen on the importance of church attendance. It also pays a lot of attention to Church discipline. Other sorts of Protestestant Evangelicalism have a rather sceptical attitude to the Church and its structures &#8211; this is very marked among Dispensationalists.  </p>
<p>Disclaimer: I&#8217;m  Catholic, formerly Evangelical, and very Protestant in some ways, &amp; very sceptical in others.  </p>
<p>Hope that answers the question.   <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-45203</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 17:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-45203</guid>
		<description>My perspective on this topic: I also say &quot;I&#039;m Christian but not religious.&quot; 
Maybe my reasons are different...

Since my faith in God was not acquired from exposure to religious practices (church, daily prayer, etc), but rather a pervading sense that God has always been in my awareness and heart, I have trouble with people&#039;s expectation that I join in &#039;churchy&#039; activities.
I like being with my friends there, listening to the Pastor, and knowing Jesus is my Saviour. I don&#039;t doubt for a moment that&#039;s true for me.
I simply don&#039;t have a routine of &#039;devotions&#039;, or saying &#039;just&#039; every 7 words or so.. I don&#039;t even like to pray out loud - whether it be grace at the table or contributing to home meetings. 
I feel artificial somehow if I try to fit into this pattern I see amongst most of my Christian friends.
It doesn&#039;t mean I don&#039;t love the Lord. I most certainly do, and I&#039;d much rather skip some Sundays than be there looking vacant. I&#039;m far more affected by music, dramatic illustrations of scriptural stories, and movies about Biblical characters.

Maybe I don&#039;t join in events such as worship rallies, or prayer marathons .. that doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;m denying Christ. It means I want to be absolutely myself in His presence, without habits that I can&#039;t call my own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My perspective on this topic: I also say &#8220;I&#8217;m Christian but not religious.&#8221;<br />
Maybe my reasons are different&#8230;</p>
<p>Since my faith in God was not acquired from exposure to religious practices (church, daily prayer, etc), but rather a pervading sense that God has always been in my awareness and heart, I have trouble with people&#8217;s expectation that I join in &#8216;churchy&#8217; activities.<br />
I like being with my friends there, listening to the Pastor, and knowing Jesus is my Saviour. I don&#8217;t doubt for a moment that&#8217;s true for me.<br />
I simply don&#8217;t have a routine of &#8216;devotions&#8217;, or saying &#8216;just&#8217; every 7 words or so.. I don&#8217;t even like to pray out loud &#8211; whether it be grace at the table or contributing to home meetings.<br />
I feel artificial somehow if I try to fit into this pattern I see amongst most of my Christian friends.<br />
It doesn&#8217;t mean I don&#8217;t love the Lord. I most certainly do, and I&#8217;d much rather skip some Sundays than be there looking vacant. I&#8217;m far more affected by music, dramatic illustrations of scriptural stories, and movies about Biblical characters.</p>
<p>Maybe I don&#8217;t join in events such as worship rallies, or prayer marathons .. that doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m denying Christ. It means I want to be absolutely myself in His presence, without habits that I can&#8217;t call my own.</p>
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		<title>By: hedi</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-43998</link>
		<dc:creator>hedi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 09:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-43998</guid>
		<description>Religion comes from the latin word: religere. It means overwriting. It has to do with following rules, the law. Jesus died for our sins and gave us a new life. Christianity has noting to do with following rules but  has to do with belief. And gratitude and love for what God has done makes that we fullfill the rules. It comes from whitin, while other religions the rules comes from the outside. We do&#039;nt have to works or do several rituals, pray fivetimes a do to come closere to God. God came to us and fullfilled everything. We just have to belief that we are saved. Thats why it is not a religion. I am not dishonest, i am not ashamed, í am not ignorant. 15 years ago i became a chritian and for i became a christian i was into boedism, hindoism, etc, etc. All these religions want to do good works and rituals to come closer to God and Yes Christianity is different from all those religions because Christians are saved by God and not by there own works of religion. Roman 3:23 It is what God did. Even Jesus was against religion, Farazees. Its about that God loves us.. He did the work. Its from the inside out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Religion comes from the latin word: religere. It means overwriting. It has to do with following rules, the law. Jesus died for our sins and gave us a new life. Christianity has noting to do with following rules but  has to do with belief. And gratitude and love for what God has done makes that we fullfill the rules. It comes from whitin, while other religions the rules comes from the outside. We do&#8217;nt have to works or do several rituals, pray fivetimes a do to come closere to God. God came to us and fullfilled everything. We just have to belief that we are saved. Thats why it is not a religion. I am not dishonest, i am not ashamed, í am not ignorant. 15 years ago i became a chritian and for i became a christian i was into boedism, hindoism, etc, etc. All these religions want to do good works and rituals to come closer to God and Yes Christianity is different from all those religions because Christians are saved by God and not by there own works of religion. Roman 3:23 It is what God did. Even Jesus was against religion, Farazees. Its about that God loves us.. He did the work. Its from the inside out.</p>
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		<title>By: Mystery Porcupine</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36544</link>
		<dc:creator>Mystery Porcupine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36544</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Roy. Yes I am a Free Stater. I ended up mentioning the Free State Project in a post here, and I realized if I used my real name that people might know me. I am not &quot;out of the closet&quot; yet about my de-conversion, so I chose a handle. Hopefully if someone figures out who I am they will help me keep it quiet for the sake of some family members who aren&#039;t ready for all this yet. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Roy. Yes I am a Free Stater. I ended up mentioning the Free State Project in a post here, and I realized if I used my real name that people might know me. I am not &#8220;out of the closet&#8221; yet about my de-conversion, so I chose a handle. Hopefully if someone figures out who I am they will help me keep it quiet for the sake of some family members who aren&#8217;t ready for all this yet. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Roy</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36526</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Off topic, but I must ask, porcupine:  Are you involved in the Free State Project?  
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.freestateproject.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.freestateproject.org&lt;/a&gt;

If not, what does your handle mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic, but I must ask, porcupine:  Are you involved in the Free State Project?<br />
<a href="http://www.freestateproject.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.freestateproject.org</a></p>
<p>If not, what does your handle mean?</p>
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		<title>By: Roy</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36525</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well said, mysterious porcupine.  I agree with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, mysterious porcupine.  I agree with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Mystery Porcupine</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36523</link>
		<dc:creator>Mystery Porcupine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 04:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36523</guid>
		<description>Perhaps I should add - the whole point of providing the above explanation is that I believe many Christians don&#039;t think THEY are extra special. It&#039;s not necessarily a problem of pride in themselves - it&#039;s that they have bought that *Christianity itself* is special and is different from all other religions. It is THE way after all, so it can&#039;t just be &quot;another&quot; religion. There are plenty of well-meaning, humble, loving people who truly believe this and believe that it helps when they tell other people that Christianity is &quot;more than&quot; a religion. That doesn&#039;t make them right, of course. But it means that our calling them arrogant and dishonest probably misses the mark in many cases. Ignorance may ring true a lot more often - not stupidity, just a limited understanding of religion in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I should add &#8211; the whole point of providing the above explanation is that I believe many Christians don&#8217;t think THEY are extra special. It&#8217;s not necessarily a problem of pride in themselves &#8211; it&#8217;s that they have bought that *Christianity itself* is special and is different from all other religions. It is THE way after all, so it can&#8217;t just be &#8220;another&#8221; religion. There are plenty of well-meaning, humble, loving people who truly believe this and believe that it helps when they tell other people that Christianity is &#8220;more than&#8221; a religion. That doesn&#8217;t make them right, of course. But it means that our calling them arrogant and dishonest probably misses the mark in many cases. Ignorance may ring true a lot more often &#8211; not stupidity, just a limited understanding of religion in general.</p>
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		<title>By: Mystery Porcupine</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36522</link>
		<dc:creator>Mystery Porcupine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36522</guid>
		<description>This is most interesting. I tried to skim the comments to see if anyone said anything similar to my experience, but I didn&#039;t see it. I&#039;m sorry if I missed it.

When I was a Christian and said, &quot;I&#039;m not religious,&quot; I did it for a different reason. I saw that people tended to talk about religion as if you could box it up on a package, as if it was only one part of a person. In society, religion could be separated from state, personally it could be put to the side for the sake of a certain type of decision or interaction and then picked up again when it was convenient. In some cases, religion was viewed as more cultural than day-to-day lifestyle. 

I thought (was taught) that a relationship with Jesus was much more than that. It could not be put into any kind of box in my mind or my life - it would influence every decision and every day of my life. Maybe I was trying to say Christianity was better than other religions - of course I was taught that it was. But the statement was not purposefully deceptive. I thought that Christianity demanded much more of me than following a religious code or participating in religious rituals, and that it was more fulfilling as well. It was a living interactive thing instead of a set of rituals or rules. Telling nonbelievers that I wasn&#039;t religious was trying to get them to see that Christianity was a personal way of life, not just a book of rules (remember the Pharisees - that&#039;s what I thought was religion).

Now that I&#039;ve written all that, there is something else. I knew plenty of people who went to church and it didn&#039;t appear to influence their actions at all...going through the motions of &quot;religion&quot; and not even finding joy or fulfillment in it. That is probably why I was trying to distinguish my &quot;living&quot; faith from a religion. 

Of course, what I thought was a living, breathing, unboxed faith really was just me living out a creed to the extreme. I don&#039;t think there was any way for me to know that at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is most interesting. I tried to skim the comments to see if anyone said anything similar to my experience, but I didn&#8217;t see it. I&#8217;m sorry if I missed it.</p>
<p>When I was a Christian and said, &#8220;I&#8217;m not religious,&#8221; I did it for a different reason. I saw that people tended to talk about religion as if you could box it up on a package, as if it was only one part of a person. In society, religion could be separated from state, personally it could be put to the side for the sake of a certain type of decision or interaction and then picked up again when it was convenient. In some cases, religion was viewed as more cultural than day-to-day lifestyle. </p>
<p>I thought (was taught) that a relationship with Jesus was much more than that. It could not be put into any kind of box in my mind or my life &#8211; it would influence every decision and every day of my life. Maybe I was trying to say Christianity was better than other religions &#8211; of course I was taught that it was. But the statement was not purposefully deceptive. I thought that Christianity demanded much more of me than following a religious code or participating in religious rituals, and that it was more fulfilling as well. It was a living interactive thing instead of a set of rituals or rules. Telling nonbelievers that I wasn&#8217;t religious was trying to get them to see that Christianity was a personal way of life, not just a book of rules (remember the Pharisees &#8211; that&#8217;s what I thought was religion).</p>
<p>Now that I&#8217;ve written all that, there is something else. I knew plenty of people who went to church and it didn&#8217;t appear to influence their actions at all&#8230;going through the motions of &#8220;religion&#8221; and not even finding joy or fulfillment in it. That is probably why I was trying to distinguish my &#8220;living&#8221; faith from a religion. </p>
<p>Of course, what I thought was a living, breathing, unboxed faith really was just me living out a creed to the extreme. I don&#8217;t think there was any way for me to know that at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucas H</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36521</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucas H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-36521</guid>
		<description>Wow.  Imagine me, a Christian, fully agreeing with this essay.

But you are correct.  Those who claim Christianity is not a religion are either ignorant or dishonest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Imagine me, a Christian, fully agreeing with this essay.</p>
<p>But you are correct.  Those who claim Christianity is not a religion are either ignorant or dishonest.</p>
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		<title>By: Rev : John Flipsen</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-17900</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev : John Flipsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/11/im-not-religious-im-a-christian/#comment-17900</guid>
		<description>Why is for many the word Christian religion such a bad word,reason may well be their uncertainty of their, Today more and more Christian leaders do start to recognize the chair of Peter.It is this were Jesus was praying for under the Leadership of Rome Christ did pray for this that all may be one as we are one Father.Whether we like it or not that is were it coming to. Look back at the very latest ecumenical discussions which have taken place in early January.As the secretary of the WCC expressed it his hope is that within fifty years we have fullcommunion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is for many the word Christian religion such a bad word,reason may well be their uncertainty of their, Today more and more Christian leaders do start to recognize the chair of Peter.It is this were Jesus was praying for under the Leadership of Rome Christ did pray for this that all may be one as we are one Father.Whether we like it or not that is were it coming to. Look back at the very latest ecumenical discussions which have taken place in early January.As the secretary of the WCC expressed it his hope is that within fifty years we have fullcommunion.</p>
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