Standing for Jesus or Demonstrating Bigotry?
July 13, 2007 at 7:39 am The de-Convert 23 comments
I’m sure the three individuals who protested the prayer delivered by Rajan Zed, a Hindu chaplain from Nevada, to open the Senate on July 12th thought they were “defending their faith” but in reality, they were simply letting their bigotry and intolerance show.
According to a press release from Operation Save America:
Ante Pavkovic, Kathy Pavkovic, and Kristen Sugar were all arrested in the chambers of the United States Senate as that chamber was violated by a false Hindu god. The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the One True God, Jesus Christ. This would never have been allowed by our Founding Fathers.
Their Director, Rev. Flip Benham, is quoted as saying:
“Not one Senator had the backbone to stand as our Founding Fathers stood. They stood on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! There were three in the audience with the courage to stand and proclaim, ‘Thou shalt have no other gods before me.’ They were immediately removed from the chambers, arrested, and are in jail now. God bless those who stand for Jesus as we know that He stands for them.”
- The de-Convert
Entry filed under: The de-Convert. Tags: christianity, Jesus, religion.
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1.
Chris | July 13, 2007 at 8:36 am
I only wish I could say that was surprising at all. *sigh* Who wants to place bets on what happens to the people arrested? How long do you think until they’re released and charges dropped? I give it a week at most.
2.
superhappyjen | July 13, 2007 at 8:40 am
This reminds me of elementary school, when the teacher had to put some kids in the hall because they were snickering during somebody’s presentation. So childish and rude.
3.
Heather | July 13, 2007 at 11:15 am
It’s obvious that those who protested feel that their way is the only way to God, and all other forms of worship are false. But if they truly desire to save those they were protesting at, what makes them think that behavior is the key to doing so? If anything, it’s going to make people that much more unlikely to investigate Christianity, because they wouldn’t want to be like the protesters.
And if you want your religion respected, shouldn’t you in turn do the same for other religions? Shouldn’t your behavior, if your way is the only way, make the behavior of all others pale in comparison? (Although, this behavior kind of did, only in a negative way).
4.
The de-Convert | July 13, 2007 at 12:05 pm
What I find interesting is that these very people would protest the formation if Islamic states in the Middle East and believe there should be democracy in those country. Yet they want to apply their own version of fundamentalism to the U.S.
Paul
5.
Lyall Abbott | July 13, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Since it is an election year for President, why not write in Jesus Christ or Jehovah as our on and only True and Living God as our President and leave out the Senate, the Supreme Court etc.. etc…
and end once and for all time all false god’s and religions, no more taxes, no more IRS, no more Federal Reserve. We have to make the choice individually. We individually can make that choice only when we have the truth. We can only find the truth in God’s word the Holy Bible. True Christians are being a living Bible to be read by all. Let us learn and know, have a working knowledge of the Heavenly Kingdom of God, intelligently and realistically in principle works applied in todays world. The Kingdom of God is being established. Are you and I studying to show ourselves approved?
All the government agencies and non government agencies mentioned above that are thought to be a part of our government are all filled to the brim with those who are controlled by the powers of darkness, and who will stop at nothing, even appearing to be Christians”", to accomplish what the Bible has foretold. We are all set up for the total collapse of the United States, and Christianity, and True freedom as found in the one and only Tue Witness, the one and only Tue God. We don’t need just a New World Order”", we need a Universal government. God’s government is Universal. We have to be willing to change to accept the love of God, to accept the Agape of God. We have to be transformed, born again, a new creation. Humanity has to be joined with Divinity. That is what it means to be like Christ to be a Christian. Truth is what will unite, as well as divide. Light/Darkness.
6.
Heather | July 13, 2007 at 1:56 pm
And here’s another question: by false, they mean that the Hindu got does not exist. So how exactly can something be violated by an entity that doesn’t even exist?
7.
Heather | July 13, 2007 at 1:57 pm
At least, that’s how I’d interpret false. If their God is the One True God that does exist, and truth correlates with existence, then when reversed, the Hindu God would be the false, non-existent God.
8.
Thinking Ape | July 13, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Lyall Abbott says, “[Scary stuff]”
Help.
When you have people like this. And people who believe the same thing, but on another side of the coin (i.e. Jihadists) – it appears only a matter of time before the majority of the world population will die. Armageddon and the end of the world is a self-fulfilling prophecy – it will only happen because people want it.
9.
Brad | July 13, 2007 at 2:35 pm
“I’m sure these three individuals thought they were “defending the faith” but in reality, they were simply letting their bigotry and intolerance show”
I think you said it best right there. You are dead on.
10.
mysteryofiniquity | July 13, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Last I checked, there was no requirement that members of the House or Senate must be of the Christian faith, nor was there a clause that said all prayers must be Christian. This video reveals that either all faiths should be allowed to voice the opening prayer or an opening prayer should be dispensed with altogether. That’ll level the playing field, don’t ya’ think?
11.
karen | July 13, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Since it is an election year for President, why not write in Jesus Christ or Jehovah as our on and only True and Living God as our President and leave out the Senate, the Supreme Court etc.. etc…
and end once and for all time all false god’s and religions, no more taxes, no more IRS, no more Federal Reserve.
Okay, I read this much of your post, Lyall, and I thought for sure you were joking. Please tell me this is sarcasm … (she says, unreasonably hoping for the best).
Last I checked, there was no requirement that members of the House or Senate must be of the Christian faith, nor was there a clause that said all prayers must be Christian.
I’ve never heard of a Christian requirement, but several states do apparently have antiquated laws still on the books saying that elected officials must believe in god. They’re not strictly enforced, but given how strongly opposed public opinion is to atheism, they’re pretty much informally enforced.
12.
karen | July 13, 2007 at 7:41 pm
At least, that’s how I’d interpret false. If their God is the One True God that does exist, and truth correlates with existence, then when reversed, the Hindu God would be the false, non-existent God.
Heather, the churches I attended taught that other gods were actually Satan, “disguised as an angel of light” and other religions were run by demons who deceived people into believing falsehoods. So, other religions and other gods were not looked on as benign and neutral, they were looked on as direct threats to Christianity.
13.
Heather | July 13, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Karen,
** the churches I attended taught that other gods were actually Satan, “disguised as an angel of light” and other religions were run by demons who deceived people into believing falsehoods. **
Ah, yes. The ol Satan argument.
I must say, Satan is *really* busy then.
I think the flaw I would find in that argument is that under Christian standards, those who are under Satan’s “spell” display certain characteristics: like bad behavior, hurting others, lack of compassion and so on. But many devout Muslims and Hindus do in fact display many of the “fruits of the Spirit.” ANd yet the churches you attended said that was the result of Satan? Because the fruits of the Spirit are the the opposite of sinful behavior.
Which then reduces everything to you can only tell who follows Christ based on belief. Except Jesus was clear that one could tell who followed him based on actions and behavior.
14.
karen | July 14, 2007 at 12:23 am
Ah, yes. The ol Satan argument.
I must say, Satan is *really* busy then.
OH yes! He’s a busy, busy little fellow, continuously looking to do mischief, doncha know?
The operative verse here was 1 Peter 5:8:
Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.
I think the flaw I would find in that argument is that under Christian standards, those who are under Satan’s “spell” display certain characteristics: like bad behavior, hurting others, lack of compassion and so on. But many devout Muslims and Hindus do in fact display many of the “fruits of the Spirit.” ANd yet the churches you attended said that was the result of Satan? Because the fruits of the Spirit are the the opposite of sinful behavior.
Yes, that was definitely a problem with that doctrine, and it was never really satisfactorily answered. The standard explanation was that these people might be doing good works – which was fine – but they weren’t “laying up their treasure in heaven” because they weren’t saved. So any mere nice behavior they displayed here on earth was all going to burn and didn’t count in the kingdom anyway.
It wasn’t so much an explanation as it was an arrogant dismissal and a sort of “neener-neener-you-don’t-count” response.
But then again, a whole lot of Christians weren’t displaying much in the way of fruit of the spirit, and that didn’t get talked about either. Very selective reasoning going on, there.
15. Silly Old Bear's Grins and Grumps | July 14, 2007 at 2:45 am
Xtians Disgrace themselves - Again…
“I’m sure the three individuals who protested the prayer delivered by Rajan Zed, a Hindu chaplain from Nevada, to open the Senate on July 12th thought they were “defending their faith” but in reality, they were simply letting their bigotry…
16.
Dan Barnett | July 15, 2007 at 8:18 am
I told my wife about this video. My comment to her was that it disgusts me how people like these three push for religious freedom, but that doesn’t include anu religion but their own.
Also, Heather, by the Hindu god, which one do you mean? They’ve created like 3 million of them.
I believe my way to God is the only one, but if someone decides to worship false gods, what can I do? Pretty close to nothing.
17.
HeIsSailing | July 15, 2007 at 2:50 pm
If you want to read some maddening thoughts on this same video, check out some of the comments from this politically conservative blog:
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/07/12/video-three-arrested-after-disrupting-hindu-prayer-in-senate/
A few choice nuggets pulled at random:
“this is the sort of multi-culti spectacle we get under democrat leadership. Expect wiccan high priestess chants at some point if Harry Reid remains the Senate Majority Leader.”
“A Muslim offered the opening prayer in 93. My main beef (there goes that word again) with a Hindu opening the session in prayer has to do with the idea that we were a nation founded under one God. That being the God who started with Abraham and then sent His Son to live among us to teach us first hand how to live.”
“As for tolerance, we Christians are as tolerant as they come. We had to tolerate separation of church and state being in the constitution when it is not.”
“As I see it, the issue really isn’t even about Hinduism, it’s about honoring false gods in the Senate chamber. Something that sets a very dangerous precedent for this nation”
etc.. etc.. etc…
but not to disparage them all – there are a few wise words in there:
“Perhaps they should stop formal prayers at the Senate? What is the problem for people if they want taking a moment of silence and do what they wish with it before the Senate starts?”
18.
WhatWouldJeffersonDo | July 16, 2007 at 6:22 am
Using our Founding Fathers to promote and/or defend religion by implying it was the foundation in the formation of this country is plain ignorance. I think the rev. needs a history lesson.
19.
Maestroh | July 21, 2007 at 6:59 pm
Ante Pavkovic is an idiot. Check out my own blog or Light After Darkness’ website where he posts as Servetus to see a real guy in desperate need of an encounter with the biblical Jesus.
His wife sent me an email a few days before their arrest and said that when her husband called somebody a ‘liar’ (his favorite term) who is lying that was not name-calling but the use of biblical language.
I wrote her back and told her that using biblical language, her husband is an ass.
20.
Thinking Ape | July 22, 2007 at 12:56 am
Dan Barnett says, “Also, Heather, by the Hindu god, which one do you mean? They’ve created like 3 million of them.”
Dan, the “gods” of hinduism are more or less irrelevant as factual truths.When one speaks of the “one hindu god” it is usually in reference to the Brahman. Hinduism, in all practicality for scholars, is more of a henotheistic than pantheistic religious system. They didn’t “create” gods, they merely accepted the addition of tribal gods as their dharmic religion became part of the political landscape of the indian subcontinent.
21.
Ezra | August 10, 2007 at 11:39 pm
maestroh, you ARE a liar, and a hateful little snipe as well. Your blog reveals this quite clearly, as it does that it is all about YOU and slandering others. The Biblical Jesus is nowhere to be found on your blog, forum or the spirit you write in.
22.
Maestroh | September 8, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Dear Ezra,
When you make an ACCUSATION against somebody, it is expected that you SUBSTANTIATE that accusation. As you have accused me of lying, can you tell me ONE place that I lied?
A ‘hateful little snipe?’
It is quite obvious to me that you never read the FIRST post nor the reason the ‘debate’ was posted there.
I’d appreciate either a substantation or an apology – otherwise, you’re not exactly showing the biblical Jesus yourself, are you?
23.
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