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	<title>Comments on: Is the New Testament an improvement on Old Testament morality?</title>
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	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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		<title>By: Resources for Deuteronomy 21:12 - 14</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-53292</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Resources for Deuteronomy 21:12 - 14]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 02:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-53292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 1Is the New Testament an improvement on Old Testament morality? &#171; de-conversion  SUBMIT [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1Is the New Testament an improvement on Old Testament morality? &laquo; de-conversion  SUBMIT [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Morality: Do we Need God to be Good &#124; rkcraigslist51907</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-52582</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morality: Do we Need God to be Good &#124; rkcraigslist51907]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 23:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-52582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] [3] &#8211; http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [3] &#8211; <a href="http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/" rel="nofollow">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/</a> [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51658</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 22:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. spalms 115 and spalms 135 thier IDOLS are FALSE cant speak can&#039;t hear cant smell and those that make them shall become like them. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can&#039;...t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man.&#8206;1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. spalms 115 and spalms 135 thier IDOLS are FALSE cant speak can&#8217;t hear cant smell and those that make them shall become like them. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can&#8217;&#8230;t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man.&#8206;1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiable.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51657</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 22:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51657</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. spalms 115 and spalms 135 thier IDOLS are FALSE cant speak can&#039;t hear cant smell and those that make them shall become like them. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can&#039;...t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man.&#8206;1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. spalms 115 and spalms 135 thier IDOLS are FALSE cant speak can&#8217;t hear cant smell and those that make them shall become like them. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can&#8217;&#8230;t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man.&#8206;1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiable.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve's Apple</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eve's Apple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2011 02:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I recall correctly, Islam sees itself as a corrective update to both Christianity and Judaism.  And Baha&#039;i sees itself as a corrective update to Islam, Christianity and Judaism, while Mormonism sees itself as a corrective update to Christianity.  The problem with this view of &quot;progressive revelation&quot; is that God apparently does not bother to tell the followers of the old religion that their beliefs are out of date.  

I cannot think of ONE example in history where God told people (not just one or two but whole populations) that while they were undoubtedly sincere, they had gotten his will tragically wrong and that they should not continue their present course. So I do not look to see any changes in Islam regarding violence, which in any case is only true of a few fanatics and certainly not true of the majority of Muslims in the world.  But  &quot;Thou shalt not scapegoat&quot; isn&#039;t a commandment in either Testament as far as I know.  To read the New Testament one would think that the majority of Jews had nothing better to do than hound Christians from town to town.  If Jesus truly died for our sins, did He know or even care that many of His people would die for His death?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I recall correctly, Islam sees itself as a corrective update to both Christianity and Judaism.  And Baha&#8217;i sees itself as a corrective update to Islam, Christianity and Judaism, while Mormonism sees itself as a corrective update to Christianity.  The problem with this view of &#8220;progressive revelation&#8221; is that God apparently does not bother to tell the followers of the old religion that their beliefs are out of date.  </p>
<p>I cannot think of ONE example in history where God told people (not just one or two but whole populations) that while they were undoubtedly sincere, they had gotten his will tragically wrong and that they should not continue their present course. So I do not look to see any changes in Islam regarding violence, which in any case is only true of a few fanatics and certainly not true of the majority of Muslims in the world.  But  &#8220;Thou shalt not scapegoat&#8221; isn&#8217;t a commandment in either Testament as far as I know.  To read the New Testament one would think that the majority of Jews had nothing better to do than hound Christians from town to town.  If Jesus truly died for our sins, did He know or even care that many of His people would die for His death?</p>
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		<title>By: cag</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51530</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[stevefnp1, google &quot;jot or tittle&quot; and then get back to us.  Do not assume that we accept anything that is written without checking it for reasonability.  We do not sit in pews and blindly accept any lies that emanate from the pulpit.  We do not attempt to justify any work of fiction to reinforce our beliefs.  We are not faith based, we are evidence based.  

We do not consider ourselves as unworthy sinners - sinners who hate themselves and consequently when told to &quot;love thy neighbor as thyself&quot; actually do.  Is it any wonder that some of us reject fantasy for reality?

We are not out to cherry pick the bible.  Those &quot;fruits&quot; are poison.  We totally reject the bible as a source of anything of value to a reality based life.

Updating the &quot;word of god&quot; is an admission that the god of the bible is far from perfect.  You may want to check out Matthew 5:17-18, which contradicts your old-new argument.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stevefnp1, google &#8220;jot or tittle&#8221; and then get back to us.  Do not assume that we accept anything that is written without checking it for reasonability.  We do not sit in pews and blindly accept any lies that emanate from the pulpit.  We do not attempt to justify any work of fiction to reinforce our beliefs.  We are not faith based, we are evidence based.  </p>
<p>We do not consider ourselves as unworthy sinners &#8211; sinners who hate themselves and consequently when told to &#8220;love thy neighbor as thyself&#8221; actually do.  Is it any wonder that some of us reject fantasy for reality?</p>
<p>We are not out to cherry pick the bible.  Those &#8220;fruits&#8221; are poison.  We totally reject the bible as a source of anything of value to a reality based life.</p>
<p>Updating the &#8220;word of god&#8221; is an admission that the god of the bible is far from perfect.  You may want to check out Matthew 5:17-18, which contradicts your old-new argument.</p>
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		<title>By: stevefnp1</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51525</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stevefnp1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 03:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-51525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyone with any sense knows the new testament overrides the old testament. Get it-new, old?? I think anyone who wants can cherry pick and try to make themselves feel better in their own religion by confusing the books of another to either justify their own shortcomings or to just be deliberately hostile. What&#039;s wrong if a religion improves and the people as well and who is to say god is not different in the new testament. It would be great if a relgion like islam would update its out-of-date testament so to speak and become trully peaceful like they claim to be every time they commit violence and terrorism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone with any sense knows the new testament overrides the old testament. Get it-new, old?? I think anyone who wants can cherry pick and try to make themselves feel better in their own religion by confusing the books of another to either justify their own shortcomings or to just be deliberately hostile. What&#8217;s wrong if a religion improves and the people as well and who is to say god is not different in the new testament. It would be great if a relgion like islam would update its out-of-date testament so to speak and become trully peaceful like they claim to be every time they commit violence and terrorism.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucian</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-33449</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 21:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-33449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m saying that I didn&#039;t get you guys. And then I (finally) got it where you were all coming from. That&#039;s all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m saying that I didn&#8217;t get you guys. And then I (finally) got it where you were all coming from. That&#8217;s all.</p>
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		<title>By: paleale</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-33448</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paleale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 20:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-33448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lucian, 

Just trying to understand your post.  Are you pointing out a disproportionate use of Old Covenant pictures of god as an argument against theism?  Or are you saying that atheists feel they have to start with the Old Covenant god in order to condemn the Inquisition, slavery, fundamentalism and Islam? 

Not really sure what you were trying to say.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucian, </p>
<p>Just trying to understand your post.  Are you pointing out a disproportionate use of Old Covenant pictures of god as an argument against theism?  Or are you saying that atheists feel they have to start with the Old Covenant god in order to condemn the Inquisition, slavery, fundamentalism and Islam? </p>
<p>Not really sure what you were trying to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve's Apple</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-33444</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eve's Apple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 18:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/07/18/is-the-new-testament-an-improvement-on-old-testament-morality/#comment-33444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reading through these posts, I found much that was disturbing and frightening, namely the fact that there are people who are not only comfortable with the idea of God commanding people to kill for him, but actually &quot;defend&quot; these actions!  One poster repeatedly stated his/her willingness to see his/her child MURDERED in the name of God.  I am sure glad that who ever you are that you are not my parent!  I don&#039;t know about anyone else but this sort of thing sends chills up my spine and is another reason why I am no longer a Christian.

A few months ago while on a plane a fellow passenger said to me, &quot;Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims&quot;.  I said to her, &quot;What about Oklahoma City?  That was home-grown.&quot;  Right after 9-11 Islam came under much scrutiny and justifiably so.  But we totally ignore the dark side of Christianity.  Why is that?  Because it makes us uncomfortable?  

I think we need to start confronting this &quot;dark side&quot; and start asking very pointed questions.  Especially to those who defend God&#039;s murderous actions, no matter what Scripture they come from.  Ask them, &quot;If God told you to kill me, would you obey that command?&quot;  It is very interesting how few will come right out and say Yes.  But they won&#039;t say No, either.  They hem and haw and squirm around that point, saying that was Old Covenant and God doesn&#039;t act that way any more.  

The bottom line is trust.  Can I, as a nonbeliever, trust you, as a believer?  I&#039;m afraid, sadly, that the answer is &quot;no.&quot;  Because I do not trust your God who has amply demonstrated that he has no qualms ordering his followers to kill for him.  It does not matter how many centuries ago this happened.  If you follow such a God, and you put obedience to him above any other consideration, you are not to be trusted.  Period.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading through these posts, I found much that was disturbing and frightening, namely the fact that there are people who are not only comfortable with the idea of God commanding people to kill for him, but actually &#8220;defend&#8221; these actions!  One poster repeatedly stated his/her willingness to see his/her child MURDERED in the name of God.  I am sure glad that who ever you are that you are not my parent!  I don&#8217;t know about anyone else but this sort of thing sends chills up my spine and is another reason why I am no longer a Christian.</p>
<p>A few months ago while on a plane a fellow passenger said to me, &#8220;Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims&#8221;.  I said to her, &#8220;What about Oklahoma City?  That was home-grown.&#8221;  Right after 9-11 Islam came under much scrutiny and justifiably so.  But we totally ignore the dark side of Christianity.  Why is that?  Because it makes us uncomfortable?  </p>
<p>I think we need to start confronting this &#8220;dark side&#8221; and start asking very pointed questions.  Especially to those who defend God&#8217;s murderous actions, no matter what Scripture they come from.  Ask them, &#8220;If God told you to kill me, would you obey that command?&#8221;  It is very interesting how few will come right out and say Yes.  But they won&#8217;t say No, either.  They hem and haw and squirm around that point, saying that was Old Covenant and God doesn&#8217;t act that way any more.  </p>
<p>The bottom line is trust.  Can I, as a nonbeliever, trust you, as a believer?  I&#8217;m afraid, sadly, that the answer is &#8220;no.&#8221;  Because I do not trust your God who has amply demonstrated that he has no qualms ordering his followers to kill for him.  It does not matter how many centuries ago this happened.  If you follow such a God, and you put obedience to him above any other consideration, you are not to be trusted.  Period.</p>
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