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	<title>Comments on: My Fall From Grace (Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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		<title>By: Glenn Davey</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-38919</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Glenn Davey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-38919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi there,

I enjoyed your piece on JWs and skepticism. I&#039;m writing a book very much along these lines. It&#039;s good to hear all the arguments resaid by someone else, and interesting to see that the same exact concerns could arise in someone else, and be resolved through the application rational thought and unbiased research.

My book is basically your paper expanded to about 400 pages. I really go in-depth about the workings of ouija boards, the origin of life and the universe, the failed prophecies, meme distribution and the evolution of JW&#039;s, plus the offshoots that have been spawned by them.

All the parts are fascinating by themselves and deserve books, but the trick is getting it all into one book and have it not be longer than the bible.

Plus, there&#039;s a balance in how to write it - for witnesses? for drifting witnesses? for non-witnesses? its a fine equilibrium between not talking down to drifting witnesses, not beating their religion over the head too much, not sounding too simplistic or dumbed-down if a skeptic or scientist read the book... and all the while tempered by the thought that hardcore JW&#039;s might chance to read it, and making sure I don&#039;t make them feel bashed over the head also.

Anyway, it&#039;s great essay, again - and it struck every cord  with me. I could almost have written it myself, but you did a better job.

Keep it up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there,</p>
<p>I enjoyed your piece on JWs and skepticism. I&#8217;m writing a book very much along these lines. It&#8217;s good to hear all the arguments resaid by someone else, and interesting to see that the same exact concerns could arise in someone else, and be resolved through the application rational thought and unbiased research.</p>
<p>My book is basically your paper expanded to about 400 pages. I really go in-depth about the workings of ouija boards, the origin of life and the universe, the failed prophecies, meme distribution and the evolution of JW&#8217;s, plus the offshoots that have been spawned by them.</p>
<p>All the parts are fascinating by themselves and deserve books, but the trick is getting it all into one book and have it not be longer than the bible.</p>
<p>Plus, there&#8217;s a balance in how to write it &#8211; for witnesses? for drifting witnesses? for non-witnesses? its a fine equilibrium between not talking down to drifting witnesses, not beating their religion over the head too much, not sounding too simplistic or dumbed-down if a skeptic or scientist read the book&#8230; and all the while tempered by the thought that hardcore JW&#8217;s might chance to read it, and making sure I don&#8217;t make them feel bashed over the head also.</p>
<p>Anyway, it&#8217;s great essay, again &#8211; and it struck every cord  with me. I could almost have written it myself, but you did a better job.</p>
<p>Keep it up.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Angellis</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-33586</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Angellis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 15:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-33586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m the writer of the original article.  I&#039;m really glad that others can benefit from the story of my experience.

To answer Tom, they are warned very strongly with regard to it, but this is as near to an non-official command as you can get from the organisation.

In the same way that due to legal reasons, the organisation is not allowed to impose religious sanctions on JWs for the use of blood.  However I would be very suprised if the non-blood commandment is still presented as a suggestion; it certainly wasn&#039;t in my time.

Also, there is a flaw in your analogy Tom.  If you say to someone &quot;you can do this if you want, but you will die&quot;, like a cigarette warning, that is just the same as a commandment not to do from the point of view of the JWs.  For further proof of this, consider all other warnings which carry the penalty of death for JWs: adultery, homosexuality, offending the holy spirit, refusing to repent, etc etc.  It is hardly &quot;suggested&quot; that JWs don&#039;t do these things...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the writer of the original article.  I&#8217;m really glad that others can benefit from the story of my experience.</p>
<p>To answer Tom, they are warned very strongly with regard to it, but this is as near to an non-official command as you can get from the organisation.</p>
<p>In the same way that due to legal reasons, the organisation is not allowed to impose religious sanctions on JWs for the use of blood.  However I would be very suprised if the non-blood commandment is still presented as a suggestion; it certainly wasn&#8217;t in my time.</p>
<p>Also, there is a flaw in your analogy Tom.  If you say to someone &#8220;you can do this if you want, but you will die&#8221;, like a cigarette warning, that is just the same as a commandment not to do from the point of view of the JWs.  For further proof of this, consider all other warnings which carry the penalty of death for JWs: adultery, homosexuality, offending the holy spirit, refusing to repent, etc etc.  It is hardly &#8220;suggested&#8221; that JWs don&#8217;t do these things&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tom sheepandgoats</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-32115</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tom sheepandgoats]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-32115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is it really that JWs are &lt;i&gt;told&lt;/i&gt; not to read apostate literature, or are they merely warned with regard to it?

Cigarette packages contain strong warnings about smoking. But that&#039;s not the same as &lt;i&gt;telling&lt;/i&gt; people not to smoke.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it really that JWs are <i>told</i> not to read apostate literature, or are they merely warned with regard to it?</p>
<p>Cigarette packages contain strong warnings about smoking. But that&#8217;s not the same as <i>telling</i> people not to smoke.</p>
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		<title>By: sgseattle</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-29184</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sgseattle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-29184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[XJW here ... this is an excellent description of our experience ... something I can share with people who want to really understand. Thank you so much!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>XJW here &#8230; this is an excellent description of our experience &#8230; something I can share with people who want to really understand. Thank you so much!</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-24217</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-24217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I completely agree, good should be done for its own sake, to help other people, and we shouldn&#039;t harm others because it is simply wrong to do so. God doesn&#039;t need to be involved where simple common sense can dictate what we should do. Do not steal, because people have worked hard for their possesions and it is wrong to take them. Not because a God, any God, says so. Infact, many world religions seem to have many of the same basic rules, no stealing, no murder. I have always wondered about the rule Thou shalt not murder, as more people have been killed for their religion than any other reason in history.  So, do we really, honestly need a god to tell us what to do? No, I think not honestly....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree, good should be done for its own sake, to help other people, and we shouldn&#8217;t harm others because it is simply wrong to do so. God doesn&#8217;t need to be involved where simple common sense can dictate what we should do. Do not steal, because people have worked hard for their possesions and it is wrong to take them. Not because a God, any God, says so. Infact, many world religions seem to have many of the same basic rules, no stealing, no murder. I have always wondered about the rule Thou shalt not murder, as more people have been killed for their religion than any other reason in history.  So, do we really, honestly need a god to tell us what to do? No, I think not honestly&#8230;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: evanescent</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-7636</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanescent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-7636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi John,

I too wish that more professed Christians lived by the actual teachings of Jesus, however even some of these are outdated and useless in the real world (hellfire??).

There is nothing good Jesus said though that others didn&#039;t say before him, and that we couldn&#039;t come up with on our own.

Treat people like you want to be treated is excellent advice, so why all the Christianity mumbo-jumbo that goes with it?  Because if it wasn&#039;t for that you&#039;d just have common sense, and religions would be out of business.

But this is exactly why we don&#039;t need religion or faith.  If you choose to believe and live a good life that&#039;s good for you, all I&#039;d point out is that we can do just as well, if not better, without religious teachings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>I too wish that more professed Christians lived by the actual teachings of Jesus, however even some of these are outdated and useless in the real world (hellfire??).</p>
<p>There is nothing good Jesus said though that others didn&#8217;t say before him, and that we couldn&#8217;t come up with on our own.</p>
<p>Treat people like you want to be treated is excellent advice, so why all the Christianity mumbo-jumbo that goes with it?  Because if it wasn&#8217;t for that you&#8217;d just have common sense, and religions would be out of business.</p>
<p>But this is exactly why we don&#8217;t need religion or faith.  If you choose to believe and live a good life that&#8217;s good for you, all I&#8217;d point out is that we can do just as well, if not better, without religious teachings.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: johndobbs</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-6884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johndobbs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2007/08/23/my-fall-from-grace/#comment-6884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, you SHOULD be nice ... people SHOULD be kind and treat one another with respect. But they do not. The teachings of Jesus will lead to a peaceful society....a Shalom of spirit and heart ... unfortunately many Christians have not lived up to their calling. So I can either judge the teachings of Jesus as they are ... or by the ones who so failingly live them out. I choose the former.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, you SHOULD be nice &#8230; people SHOULD be kind and treat one another with respect. But they do not. The teachings of Jesus will lead to a peaceful society&#8230;.a Shalom of spirit and heart &#8230; unfortunately many Christians have not lived up to their calling. So I can either judge the teachings of Jesus as they are &#8230; or by the ones who so failingly live them out. I choose the former.</p>
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