I assume you’re talking about me because I’m the ONLY person in this thread who has interacted directly with Heather (and criticized her)

I don’t know if you’ll read this or not, as you mentioned that you’re stepping away for a few days. This last portion is probably what’s being picked up on, because that’s pretty much what happened. You criticized me personally, not the argument. I answered the Bible verses that you provided, and your response essentially boiled down to: “You don’t know how to perform an exegisis.” That’s attempting to undermine my statements by undermining me, rather than sticking to the statements at hand.

And this isn’t the first time this has occured, either. Previously in our discussions, I’ve been lumped in with “enemies of Christianity” and it has been alluded to swine-likeness, with you no longer casting your pearls in my path.

The reason why gender would be addressed in this area is because I don’t see this interaction with the men on this blog. I only see it with me. I could be wrong, and I may have missed a personal statement directed towards the male commentors.

For my part, I try very had, and have tried very hard, to not make personal comments towards anyone else, regardless of the disagreement. If I have made any towards you, then I apologize.

Ah the self-righteousness of the godly!! It would be endlessly amusing if, like you said, it wasn’t so sad. And you’re right, it stems from fear. Fear of freedom foremost. If we allow others to be free, or if we try to free others from restrictive viewpoints, then those who believe they are in control realize they really have no control and that too is a fearsome thing. Like The de-Convert said in the post, all is of God and God makes the decision for us. All we do is let go! Great thoughts there.

Oh and your art is fantastic! I’d encourage all to go take a look.

I kinda rambled (typed way fast, heh) that one out, but this one below I think I honed up a bit. This is a comment I made a day before, on another post under a similar topic. See “Atheists’ Unavoidable Sin”

First… I must comment on this little ditty:

“He’s a class-A prick.”

OMG! Now you’ve gone and done it, it’s HELL (big time) for you, babe LOLOL *”God” chuckling*

Oh, and this..

“And once I took a big step back to look at what it is I believed in, I started seeing a lot of cracks. And I finally stopped squelching the questions – and you know what? The answers aren’t very satisfying anymore, particularly ones that shrug off the question with the ‘God’s mysterious’ reply.”

Suh-weet, yesssss! “Coming out of the desert” comes to me. Hmm, and dropping those sorry shackles of fear, love it! Sweet freedom

And one more… I thought it was so typical to throw out that threat of hell to a non-believer, and all wrapped up oh-so-nicely in this euphemistic BS…

“But know this … if, in the end, you and I find out that the Bible DOES describe the truth about Christ and salvation, and you remain steadfast in your position, it will be judged as a rejection of the truth. You will bear the responsibility for your decision … it cannot be deflected onto Him.”

Yikes, eek, and way scare-wee *shuddering*

But I can feel the fear so heavy behind those words…heavy, sad, such a burden…such a shame that so many are sucked into this twisted version of this old book’s teachings. It takes so much joy and peace away from this precious life.

So finally, here’s my response the “Atheists’ Unavoidable Sin”

—————————-

dovelove // Aug 27th 2007 at 4:01 pm

I don’t think they really care, lol That’s the plum of being an atheist, you’re no longer a slave to the fear of that fantasy hell thing.

Besides, it’s only a “sin” if you believe it’s a sin And you’ll only go to hell, if you believe that you will — deep down. (Yikes, how can ya’ really, really know what you believe subconsciously — or consciously, for that matter, eek, might wanna pack light for the afterlife just in case, hehe)

So ya’ better be sure of what you truly believe saintly ones Luckily atheists (and others) have no such beliefs Ah, I’m sure there are multitudinous grumblings of “ohhhh, yeah, you’ll see, we’ll see ya’ fry…” lol

Such is the nature of so many who have been so thoroughly brainwashed that they can’t even see how “un-Christian” that is…and even if they hold it back, they know it’s there in the back of their minds endeavoring to justify such sad and fearful beliefs.

One of the things that always got me when I was a “fundie,” is wondering why in world did this nice man, Jay-sus, have to die like that?? So we could sit around watchin’ TV and eating pizza? lol Although I accepted it all at age 10, ’cause the grown-ups said so, it made no sense to me, and it makes no sense now. And they wear this reminder around their necks and hang it in their churches…this horrifying thing that happened to this man.

Jesus and all that he did and all that he endured was symbolic… Like something from a dream might be interpreted It’s like the Hanged Man card in the Tarot. A guy hanging upside down from a tree. It has various meanings. It’s about enlightenment, forgiveness, sacrifice, “letting go” of one thing so as to acquire something better. A message as to how we can make our lives better, happier…not an order, just some wisdom offered.

But this symbol is just one of many in the Tarot (kind of a book of life as well, of symbolic messages) that we are to learn from. No worshiping of another required No hell if ya’ don’t believe it. No religion…no hatred or judgment encouraged. But if you’re open to it, open to these messages, a lot of cool things begin to happen

The church instilled in me a fear of the Tarot (that was difficult to shake off initially, and this was many years after my church-girl days), but I found, through my own experience, that they lied. They lied out of ignorance and fear of the unknown. The Tarot has done nothing harmful to me (ludicrous to think that pics on cardbord could do so), and in fact it has helped me to overcome so much fear that the church instilled in me.

Those of religion try to control everything and everyone out of their fear of the unknown, they’re fear of everything — life, love, all that is good about being human. And the irony is that the Hanged Man (same symbol as Jesus’ sacrifice) represents giving up control. All of that control is rooted in nothing but fear, and that’s not what Jesus’ message was about.

Peace,
Dove

Yawn all you like … but you’re dead wrong on your assessment of my motives. Don’t shoot the friendlies … save your attacks for men who are truly misogynists.

But since you asked, perhaps Fundie and conservative men “can’t win” for anything because they don’t or are unable to play fair. They change the rules on whim, assume everyone is wrong but themselves, and basically exhibit poor relational skills by not addressing the real issue when backed into a corner.

Those who have no gender bias have nothing to fear when the issue is raised in any civil discourse, therefore I’m not bothered by traditional male tactics to silence women one of which you’ve already used in your response. (yawn)

For my edification … can you show me where I or any of my “fundie” friends disrespected Heather because she is a woman? I may have disrespected her exegetical analysis … but where on earth did gender come into play? Is it possible that you’re looking for a fire where there is no smoke?

I gotta tell you, MOI … sometimes we “fundie and conservative Christian men” feel like we can’t win for anything! If I attack her scholarship, I’m “obviously” doing so because she’s a woman. But if I treat her scholarship any differently than I would a man, then I’m probably guilty in your eyes of patronizing her. Help me understand how I can “win” in your eyes! 

On a serious note, I would say this: beware of playing the gender bias card where there is no gender bias … it’s like “crying wolf.” In the end, it will serve to numb people to the true cases of gender bias that are really out there!

Peace.