As for the “relationship” you miss, and you were wondering if it was ever real: Did you believe in Santa Claus as a child? A lot of kids really really believe in Santa with their whole heart, and I’m sure some of them are convinced that they have a relationship with Santa. Yet, how many adults still believe in Santa, or think that the “relationship” they had with him as a child was real?

I “accepted” Christ, and then all the promises became MINE–when I exercise “faith” I am simply acknowledging something I already have in my possession.

This is something I’m pretty sure every one of us de-cons experienced. Eventually, we reach a point where we start to doubt, and holding to those promises did nothing for our faith, nothing to help us with our doubts.

We say with the leper “Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief” and we go to the promises and hold on to them.

We did this, and in spite of it we end up in complete unbelief anyway.

1. You were unaware of the promises
2. You were shown the promises
3. Faith in the promises appears to you/in you/however you want to describe it

So again, my question is, why does this same timeline not occur for you with the fitness equipment salesmen? Steps 1 and 2 exist EXACTLY the same way. Why no step 3?

Wow – this thread has taken on a life of its own recently! We might even say it has been “born again.”

I prefer the more common concept of “thread necromancy.” This thread has risen as an undead abomination.

I share prodigal daughter’s sentiment. I wish I could stay in the faith. It would make things a lot easier for me; I wouldn’t have to deal with telling my family and friends, I could continue to hold comfortable, fundamental beliefs that I don’t want to give up.

That doesn’t change the fact that I’ve had faith as you describe it. I’ve held to God’s promises, and gained faith because of it. Later, I realized the thing I was holding to didn’t exist.

I think if you are truly sincere you will have to admit that yes, you did see many Christians who appeared to be “staying in one place”—but there were other examples—-Christians that you saw with real joy, victory, and a real heart for the Lord.

Sure, some Christian’s improve their lives through Christianity. But I would argue it is they themselves who are improving their lives, using Christianity as the motivator. My point is that when I look at Christians, I don’t see a ladder, though the Christians firmly believe it is there. They point to the impact the climb has had on their lives and faith, but as far as I can tell any impact originated in themselves. I suppose I can get rid of the “staying in one place” line, and suggest that any movement Christians have is due to themselves, and not their “climb” up a non-existent ladder.

Are you really ducking the question that reading the Bible triggered your belief?

BigHouse—

I’m sorry if I was misunderstanding—not trying to “duck anything” at all. I readily agree that the Bible triggered my belief by putting a “promise” in front of me that faith came to me out of. I “accepted” Christ, and then all the promises became MINE–when I exercise “faith” I am simply acknowledging something I already have in my possession.

Why did make that leap of faith?

Bighouse—-

I am proceeding from the premise that you “used to be a Christian” (and some would argue that if you really received Christ you still are, but deny that fact). Faith is a “gift from God” as it states in Ephesians 2:8,9 “By Grace have you been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT OF GOD, not of works, lest any man should boast.”

When I got saved I “accepted” Christ. I did not make some “logical and long drawn out, thought out process of coming to a decision of whether or not to receive him”. I simply “asked” Jesus to come into my heart.

When I did that He did come in. At that point ALL OF THE PROMISES for believers in the BIble BECAME MINE. Faith from that point on became an “acknowledgement” of promises that were ALREADY MINE—-I didn’t have to have faith to believe them—–faith actually came FROM THEM—-it’s the reverse of how we think naturally.

For example BigHouse—if you did accept Christ for real into your heart, all the promises are STILL YOURS—-you are just denying they are real. if you were to return to Christ (I know—-highly doubtful LOL) you could approach Jesus from 1 John 1:9–a promise that you already possess, and confess your unbelief to him. He WOULD forgive you because he already PROMISED he would if you aksed.

You wouldn’t have to go to Jesus like a salesman to “buy” an item from him—–you would use promises you ALREADY POSSESS.

Are you really ducking the question that reading the Bible triggered your belief?

Just as an example, the Bible says “These things we write onto you so that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life”.

Faith would not be “trying” to believe that—-it would be accepting it as a fact—as something you POSSESS–then true faith is being used.

Why did make that leap of faith?