It’s interesting that you’d post this because just last night I was thinking of these kinds of “escape clauses” that I started analyzing while deconverting. Suddenly, instead of good apologetics, it became rather obvious to me that they were transparent and convenient excuses meant to keep the faithful sheep in the pen/pew.

I was trying to list a bunch of them. Surely, “blessed are those who believe, though they do not see,” would top the list since it not only promotes faith but it gives an extra bonus for blind faith.

I guess I’d have to add “god’s ways are not our ways” next, followed closely by the highly similar “god works in mysterious ways” and “only fools question god” – all of which discourage deep thought and investigation while again encouraging blind faith.

Evangelicals are famous for the “no true Scotsman” argument, so that when one points to the havoc that Christianity has wrought over the centuries (usually in Jesus’ name), they can trot out the “oh, but they were Catholics/Orthodox/non-Baptists” i.e. not REAL Christians like we are. When one objects to today’s Christianity, the next level goes to “oh, they’re religious but they don’t have a relationship with Jesus” – again, don’t notice any inconsistency in the tenets of the religion and the practical outcome, because “those people” are not true Christians.

In fundamentalism, this one gets sliced and diced down not only to individual denominations, but individual sects within the various denominations, and picayune doctrinal points of difference that disqualify people from being “true Christians.” Charismatics, for instance, might say someone isn’t a true Christian is they don’t manifest certain gifts of the holy spirit.

When certain atrocious bible verses are pointed out, many people will say that they’re being translated wrong, interpreted incorrectly or “taken out of context.” When the objection is raised about why the holy spirit’s influence is not manifested outwardly by believers, one usually gets the free will excuse … um, argument. And then there’s the ultimate “the devil made me do it!” – who can argue with that?

When talking about God you compare him to the human being and believe that he must react as humans do.

Windy, can you point to where in this article I made this assumption? I do not think that an onmiscient god can react – at all. So if I said that or implied it, it is surely a mistake on my part.

If you keep going further down the wrong path you may never be at peace because the question ‘does God really exist?’ will never go away.

If you say I project confusion, maybe that is because I admit that I truly do not know. I was mistaken in my Fundamentalism for so many years, that I dare not be presumptuous and claim that I now have THE answer. But I am not stressed about it either. I don’t even know if there is an answer. All I can do is learn the best I can with what I have been given, be as good a husband I can be for my wife, to leave my little sphere of the world a little better than when I found it, and enjoy life and learn what I can while I am here.

And believe me, god or no god, I am at peace with that.

Then you lost faith in Christianity, so did I but I did not lose faith in God (although I perceive God as an energy force and believe he is found in everything that is nature).

I believe if one is ever in any doubt about anything then they are probably right. Here I’d advise search, research, keep an open mind and think again. Keep doing this til the ansers to the questions begin to feel right in the centre of your heart or the pit of your stomach.

Lost and confused comes to mind when reading this blog. It seems to me you are going down the wrong path. If you keep going further down the wrong path you may never be at peace because the question ‘does God really exist?’ will never go away. It’s an instinct that there is something and one day when you come across it again you may realise that atheism actually doesn’t feel right and you’ll have a long way to walk back before going forward on the right one. From experience I can sincerely say the right path in itself is long and never ending. I feel for you as I was where you are now some years ago.
Hope you find what feels true to you.

Can you tell the differene in what I am talking about? I have faith by trusting evidence. But when no evidence is given, what kind of faith do we have but faith by gullibility?

I have faith in these things based on evidence that is absolutely verifiable. I cannot say the same things about faith in Jesus. I do not know what evidence you have seen to verify the reality of Jesus, but we all can only work with what we are given. And I have to tell you, we ain’t given much.

Whoever wrote this knew there was no good reason to believe – even way back then. So it is blessed to believe without seeing – this is the beginning of belief by faith alone. Believing without any evidence whatsoever.

I’ve often found verses like the whole “blessed are those who believe without seeing” operating as almost escape clauses, or something. It’s setting up the religion, from the very beginning, as finding something fundamentally wrong with requesting evidence. As you say later, HIS, if someone says they’ve proved time travel, do you just take their word for it? No. You request evidence. You ask how they know that, and if you can see what facts they’re using to support their claims. That’s what any credible scientist does, and with the off the wall claims, that’s what most people do in general.

Although, maybe I should re-phrase. Many believers would say they have evidence, through internal support or prayers being answered. But it’s not the sort of evidence you can point to, or the sort of evidence that doesn’t look arbitrary. For every answered prayer, there’s another unanswered one.

And if you throw the whole concept of eternal salvation, and the threat of hell into this, shouldn’t evidence be more than readily supplied, due to the consequences? If it’s so easy for Satan to tempt people into hell, shouldn’t there be evidence to make sure one is following/listening to God? Especially the right God?

Do you believe in time travel? For a long time it has just been a theory, until recently when several scientists said they have proved it.

loopyloo, are you saying you believe in Time Travel?

I am a physicist, and I can personally vouch that no such discovery has been made. If Steven Hawking himself, one of the most respected and credentaled physicists out there, came out and said he had discovered time travel, guess what? I would not believe him. Not on his word. I need some solid evidence. To believe him for a claim like that, or any scientific claim for that matter, is foolish.

Yet, Jesus says we are blessed for believing without seeing. Believing without any evidence. That is faith by gullibility, and that is what Christianity demands of us. BELIEF is the highest calling of the Christian, without which, Christians can have no salvation.

If Hawking himself said there was such a thing as time travel, and told us to just believe it, I would smell something fishy. And I smell something equally fishy when Jesus tells us the same thing.