Comments on: Slain in the Spirit… by an Atheist? http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/ Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians...... Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:44:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: DA http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-30288 DA Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:12:07 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-30288 Not that this is necessary to make my point any further, but Romans chapter 6 refers to living for God as a "freedom" from sin. [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [7] For he that is dead is freed from sin. [8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: [9] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. [10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. [11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. [14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [19] I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. [20] For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. [21] What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. [22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. [23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. So the apostles do refer to living for God (as they preach it) as being a freedom. But interestingly enough, they also refer to "serving sin" as a freedom in its own right. As the Apostate has written, in the same way, living a certain way could also be seen as being prisoner of that way, just as a man can be prisoner of his own moral code, but I don't see that as something shameful. The whole personal question is what you want to serve and what you want to be free from, and that choice is up to the individual. Not that this is necessary to make my point any further, but Romans chapter 6 refers to living for God as a “freedom” from sin.

[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

[14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

[16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

[18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[19] I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[20] For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[21] What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

[22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So the apostles do refer to living for God (as they preach it) as being a freedom. But interestingly enough, they also refer to “serving sin” as a freedom in its own right. As the Apostate has written, in the same way, living a certain way could also be seen as being prisoner of that way, just as a man can be prisoner of his own moral code, but I don’t see that as something shameful. The whole personal question is what you want to serve and what you want to be free from, and that choice is up to the individual.

]]> By: DA http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-30286 DA Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:47:17 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-30286 I will correct you on two matters. 1. Mormons and pentecostals do not believe in the stopping of sin. They believe that after they are "born again", even when they sin, Jesus having died for them continually cleanses and forgives them. Ask any mormon or pentecostal if he's a sinner, chances are, he or she will say "we're all sinners". 2. The apostles do preach to live without sin, and regardless if you care what is writen in the bible, I would just like to correct where you are mistaken with a direct quote from the book The First Epistle General of John" also known as First John. Chapter 3, verse 3 to 11 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. [6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. [11] For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. So verse 6 and 9 display the point very literally. Again, this is not on my behalf to preach, but just to inform. I will correct you on two matters.

1. Mormons and pentecostals do not believe in the stopping of sin. They believe that after they are “born again”, even when they sin, Jesus having died for them continually cleanses and forgives them. Ask any mormon or pentecostal if he’s a sinner, chances are, he or she will say “we’re all sinners”.

2. The apostles do preach to live without sin, and regardless if you care what is writen in the bible, I would just like to correct where you are mistaken with a direct quote from the book The First Epistle General of John” also known as First John. Chapter 3, verse 3 to 11

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
[11] For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

So verse 6 and 9 display the point very literally. Again, this is not on my behalf to preach, but just to inform.

]]> By: The Apostate http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-30109 The Apostate Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:23:07 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-30109 DA, <blockquote>Truth is, the New Testament preaches that “the wages of sin is death”, and also describes hell as the “second death”, so I don’t find someone that follows the bible saying that if someone ends up living in sin, they go to hell being extreme at all.</blockquote> I certainly would not oppose this. If it is true that the "wages of sin is death" and that, as an unbeliever, I would go to a place of eternal torment and punishment for my lack of perfection I would certainly turn extreme. The problem is that it would be like some paranoid individual randomly approaching me on the streets of Toronto, Ontario and telling me that the Americans are going to invade within several days. I can a) believe this individual and do a number of things that might otherwise seem extreme or b) not believe this individual and try to find that person some help or c) investigate the matter and see if there is any evidence that what this person says is true or not. But let us say we picked (a) and made our very own makeshift militia. We prepared, continued recruiting, bought arms, etc. etc. etc. But the Americans never attacked. Certainly such an army would not be afraid of our little militia. So maybe it wasn't true. So maybe some might leave our militia but many will continue to stand watch... for two thousand years. What people find extreme is what people do with their faith despite the lack of evidence for it. <blockquote>the whole point of Christianity is to take hold of your own life and make a declaration that with God’s help, you are able of living a better life free of sin.</blockquote> Actually, no it is not. You live in a postmodern dreamworld so divorced from 1800 years of Christianity that you don't even know what Christinaity's founder(s) taught. Jesus taught a radicalization of the law as an interpretation of God's love and Paul interpreted Jesus' death as paying our bondage to sin, whereas we furthermore are still to be considered slaves to Christ, in which we ironically find freedom. There is no such declaration of "taking hold of your own life" nor is any indication that you will live a "better life free of sin." This is utter hogwash ad hoc theology that Americanism has overturned two millennia of, at least in words, a spirituality of humbleness. But it is this same sort of empty rhetoric and opposition to Christian theology that is so appealing to the American mind and why new religious movements such Pentecostalism and Mormonism will continue to grow and the traditional faiths will slide into either the camp of spiritual sensationalists or rational deism, agnosticism, or atheism. DA,

Truth is, the New Testament preaches that “the wages of sin is death”, and also describes hell as the “second death”, so I don’t find someone that follows the bible saying that if someone ends up living in sin, they go to hell being extreme at all.

I certainly would not oppose this. If it is true that the “wages of sin is death” and that, as an unbeliever, I would go to a place of eternal torment and punishment for my lack of perfection I would certainly turn extreme. The problem is that it would be like some paranoid individual randomly approaching me on the streets of Toronto, Ontario and telling me that the Americans are going to invade within several days. I can a) believe this individual and do a number of things that might otherwise seem extreme or b) not believe this individual and try to find that person some help or c) investigate the matter and see if there is any evidence that what this person says is true or not. But let us say we picked (a) and made our very own makeshift militia. We prepared, continued recruiting, bought arms, etc. etc. etc. But the Americans never attacked. Certainly such an army would not be afraid of our little militia. So maybe it wasn’t true. So maybe some might leave our militia but many will continue to stand watch… for two thousand years.

What people find extreme is what people do with their faith despite the lack of evidence for it.

the whole point of Christianity is to take hold of your own life and make a declaration that with God’s help, you are able of living a better life free of sin.

Actually, no it is not. You live in a postmodern dreamworld so divorced from 1800 years of Christianity that you don’t even know what Christinaity’s founder(s) taught. Jesus taught a radicalization of the law as an interpretation of God’s love and Paul interpreted Jesus’ death as paying our bondage to sin, whereas we furthermore are still to be considered slaves to Christ, in which we ironically find freedom. There is no such declaration of “taking hold of your own life” nor is any indication that you will live a “better life free of sin.” This is utter hogwash ad hoc theology that Americanism has overturned two millennia of, at least in words, a spirituality of humbleness. But it is this same sort of empty rhetoric and opposition to Christian theology that is so appealing to the American mind and why new religious movements such Pentecostalism and Mormonism will continue to grow and the traditional faiths will slide into either the camp of spiritual sensationalists or rational deism, agnosticism, or atheism.

]]> By: DA http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-30106 DA Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:00:04 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-30106 For anyone who's reading this, before you decide whether or not a Christian church is plain crazy, oppressive, or whatever word that reflects fraudulence, read some bible on your own without anyone bothering you about what everything means. Many churches force their own meanings into scripture where they don't belong- this is the case with a majority of religions. Truth is, the New Testament preaches that "the wages of sin is death", and also describes hell as the "second death", so I don't find someone that follows the bible saying that if someone ends up living in sin, they go to hell being extreme at all. Maybe you just find the message of Jesus and his apostles extreme... the whole point of Christianity is to take hold of your own life and make a declaration that with God's help, you are able of living a better life free of sin. What I find oppressive is the attitude people generally have towards what man is able and not able to do. The most famous saying that comes to mind is, "no one is perfect," or "it's impossible to be perfect". This attitude is depressing and an insult the free will we possess. If you are interested in living blamelessly, be my guest- Christianity is for you. If you're not interested, it isn't- stop wasting your time with pastors that would rather take away your money than your sin. For anyone who’s reading this, before you decide whether or not a Christian church is plain crazy, oppressive, or whatever word that reflects fraudulence, read some bible on your own without anyone bothering you about what everything means. Many churches force their own meanings into scripture where they don’t belong- this is the case with a majority of religions.

Truth is, the New Testament preaches that “the wages of sin is death”, and also describes hell as the “second death”, so I don’t find someone that follows the bible saying that if someone ends up living in sin, they go to hell being extreme at all. Maybe you just find the message of Jesus and his apostles extreme… the whole point of Christianity is to take hold of your own life and make a declaration that with God’s help, you are able of living a better life free of sin.

What I find oppressive is the attitude people generally have towards what man is able and not able to do. The most famous saying that comes to mind is, “no one is perfect,” or “it’s impossible to be perfect”. This attitude is depressing and an insult the free will we possess. If you are interested in living blamelessly, be my guest- Christianity is for you. If you’re not interested, it isn’t- stop wasting your time with pastors that would rather take away your money than your sin.

]]> By: The Apostate http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-28659 The Apostate Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:47:54 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-28659 <blockquote>Have you read Acts?</blockquote> Yes.

Have you read Acts?

Yes.

]]> By: Anonymous http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-28657 Anonymous Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:03:04 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-28657 Have you read Acts? Have you read Acts?

]]> By: Lannette http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-24394 Lannette Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:32:08 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-24394 The slain in the "spirit" stuff isn't even IN the Bible. <a href="http://dearly-beloved.org/main.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1216634412&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&" rel="nofollow">[Link]</a> It's hypnotism, common garden hypnosis. It's roots lie in Christian gnosticism (which is heresy) and can be found in eastern religions..stuff like Kundalini, awaking your "chakra" stuff. Does it mean that ALL pastors who do the slain bit are false? No, depending on their doctrine/teachings, there are true preachers who just stumble upon and think it's from God. (it's out of ignorance) No more of the signs and wonders movement...this stuff is just deception. =( The slain in the “spirit” stuff isn’t even IN the Bible.
[Link]
It’s hypnotism, common garden hypnosis. It’s roots lie in Christian gnosticism (which is heresy) and can be found in eastern religions..stuff like Kundalini, awaking your “chakra” stuff.

Does it mean that ALL pastors who do the slain bit are false? No, depending on their doctrine/teachings, there are true preachers who just stumble upon and think it’s from God. (it’s out of ignorance) No more of the signs and wonders movement…this stuff is just deception. =(

]]> By: Kbeach http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-16373 Kbeach Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:48:25 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-16373 Kenneth Copeland put on a excellent performance at his latest ministers conference held on January 22,2008 visible at http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/copelandclips , which has now gotten the attention of people all across the USA, and abroad. The message he was unmistakably sending, came across loud and clear on every subject he was addressing. From voicing his personal feelings about the senate investigation, to a multitude of other issues facing KCM. Surprisingly, Kenneth does admit to some element of truth in the letter KCM received from the Senate, but did not go into any detailed explanations. Also in his defense, he makes the accusation that the truth is being twisted a bit. A old saying comes to mind , what comes around goes around. Years of promoting the promises of prosperity, physical healing, and last but not least the twisting of biblical scripture for personal gain has returned to KCM full circle. “ I had a home“, “I had a life“, “I had faith“, “I had a family“, “I lost a loved one“, these are merely a handful of endless testimonies coming to light nationwide. Ranging from all walks of life, their heartbreaking testimonies can be found throughout the web, yet inconceivably, victims are being labeled as fools, ignorant, and basically downright blind for not seeing the truth behind the Prosperity Gospels falsehoods. Being only human, our quest for health and wealth, regrettably does lead some in the wrong direction. Promises and guaranties, made by the Prosperity Gospel ministers, give people that have not obtained these blessings on their own, a second chance at achieving their goals in life. An important discovery I made while reviewing testimonies, revealed the fact numerous victims had very little knowledge of the Prosperity Gospels dark side. These unfortunate victims, appear to be equipped with only a small portion of the web of deceit these ministers weave . For example, picture yourself being raised in a small country town, with a population of only a few hundred, the closest city, only a population of only a few thousand. Computers, internet, cable, satellite TV, and other high tech gadgets are not needed or desired. This was my life, before KCM. Prosperity Gospel ministers enter the homes of many victims though a thirty minute Sunday morning worship service on a local broadcast station. Myself, growing up in Jigger La., truly located in the middle of nowhere, I can testify to the fact that we only received on a clear day about three or four channels at most. Therefore warnings of the numerous dangers, and intentional deceit, associated with Prosperity Gospel ministries, being made by critics, ministers, and victims went unheard by many. The irony of this are the many warning labels we all encounter every day. From cleaning supplies to over the counter medications, labels posted on various products warn us of the dangers associated with that particular product. Regrettably Prosperity Gospel does not offer this, but should! Family’s have lost their homes, lifesavings, and some even their lives to the Prosperity Gospel. Unfortunately my mother was not one of the lucky ones, her confidence, and faith in this false Gospel, ultimately cost her, her life. After more than a decade of programming her mind to believe and think the Prosperity Gospel way of life, she lost her battle with cancer. By refusing medical attention, she sealed her fate, but the programming she had acquired from Kenneth and Gloria Copeland proved strong all the way to her last breath. A diary she left behind revealed the horrific tale of her life from 1992-2002, the top of each page titled with Kenneth Copeland, Gloria Copeland, or BVOV. Some mistakes in life we can not undo, and good intentions don’t always go as planed, these victims are simply following misleading promises of health and wealth. Their use of miraculous healing confessions, and newly found wealth testimonies, are their sales pitch, my mother among others, are proof that their sale pitch does work. The possibility of certain Mega churches misusing contributors finances for their own personal luxuries is ultimately what brought this scam to the publics attention, not the loss of life, the financially bankrupt, nor the numerous homeless victims that have been left in the wake of this devastating hoax. Knowledge, is the only discovery I found to be effective in this seemingly endless battle. Sadly for some our efforts will go unheard. As for my family, once again I am addressing another envelope to Kenneth Copeland Ministries, asking once again for a summery of my mothers (Bonnie Parker) contributions to KCM, and since they have bankrupt our family also due to the numerous expenses we encountered before and after mom’s death, and once more, ask them to purchase a headstone for mom. I believe they at least owe her that much. The family of Bonnie Parker E-MAIL sis359@gmail.com Photo, before and after KCM, http://picasaweb.google.com/sis359/BonnieParkerDiaryPhoto Documentary Suffer The Children, exposes televangelists lavish lifestyles , http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/suffer-children Book recently published by Sara Posner, also looks into these subjects, http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Profits-Republican-Crusade-Values/dp/0979482216 Request for contributions viewable at http://sis359.blogspot.com Kenneth Copeland put on a excellent performance at his latest ministers conference held on January 22,2008 visible at http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/copelandclips , which has now gotten the attention of people all across the USA, and abroad. The message he was unmistakably sending, came across loud and clear on every subject he was addressing. From voicing his personal feelings about the senate investigation, to a multitude of other issues facing KCM. Surprisingly, Kenneth does admit to some element of truth in the letter KCM received from the Senate, but did not go into any detailed explanations. Also in his defense, he makes the accusation that the truth is being twisted a bit. A old saying comes to mind , what comes around goes around. Years of promoting the promises of prosperity, physical healing, and last but not least the twisting of biblical scripture for personal gain has returned to KCM full circle.
“ I had a home“, “I had a life“, “I had faith“, “I had a family“, “I lost a loved one“, these are merely a handful of endless testimonies coming to light nationwide. Ranging from all walks of life, their heartbreaking testimonies can be found throughout the web, yet inconceivably, victims are being labeled as fools, ignorant, and basically downright blind for not seeing the truth behind the Prosperity Gospels falsehoods. Being only human, our quest for health and wealth, regrettably does lead some in the wrong direction. Promises and guaranties, made by the Prosperity Gospel ministers, give people that have not obtained these blessings on their own, a second chance at achieving their goals in life. An important discovery I made while reviewing testimonies, revealed the fact numerous victims had very little knowledge of the Prosperity Gospels dark side. These unfortunate victims, appear to be equipped with only a small portion of the web of deceit these ministers weave . For example, picture yourself being raised in a small country town, with a population of only a few hundred, the closest city, only a population of only a few thousand. Computers, internet, cable, satellite TV, and other high tech gadgets are not needed or desired. This was my life, before KCM.
Prosperity Gospel ministers enter the homes of many victims though a thirty minute Sunday morning worship service on a local broadcast station. Myself, growing up in Jigger La., truly located in the middle of nowhere, I can testify to the fact that we only received on a clear day about three or four channels at most. Therefore warnings of the numerous dangers, and intentional deceit, associated with Prosperity Gospel ministries, being made by critics, ministers, and victims went unheard by many. The irony of this are the many warning labels we all encounter every day. From cleaning supplies to over the counter medications, labels posted on various products warn us of the dangers associated with that particular product. Regrettably Prosperity Gospel does not offer this, but should! Family’s have lost their homes, lifesavings, and some even their lives to the Prosperity Gospel.
Unfortunately my mother was not one of the lucky ones, her confidence, and faith in this false Gospel, ultimately cost her, her life. After more than a decade of programming her mind to believe and think the Prosperity Gospel way of life, she lost her battle with cancer. By refusing medical attention, she sealed her fate, but the programming she had acquired from Kenneth and Gloria Copeland proved strong all the way to her last breath. A diary she left behind revealed the horrific tale of her life from 1992-2002, the top of each page titled with Kenneth Copeland, Gloria Copeland, or BVOV. Some mistakes in life we can not undo, and good intentions don’t always go as planed, these victims are simply following misleading promises of health and wealth. Their use of miraculous healing confessions, and newly found wealth testimonies, are their sales pitch, my mother among others, are proof that their sale pitch does work. The possibility of certain Mega churches misusing contributors finances for their own personal luxuries is ultimately what brought this scam to the publics attention, not the loss of life, the financially bankrupt, nor the numerous homeless victims that have been left in the wake of this devastating hoax.
Knowledge, is the only discovery I found to be effective in this seemingly endless battle. Sadly for some our efforts will go unheard. As for my family, once again I am addressing another envelope to Kenneth Copeland Ministries, asking once again for a summery of my mothers (Bonnie Parker) contributions to KCM, and since they have bankrupt our family also due to the numerous expenses we encountered before and after mom’s death, and once more, ask them to purchase a headstone for mom. I believe they at least owe her that much.
The family of Bonnie Parker
E-MAIL sis359@gmail.com
Photo, before and after KCM,
http://picasaweb.google.com/sis359/BonnieParkerDiaryPhoto
Documentary Suffer The Children, exposes televangelists lavish lifestyles ,
http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/suffer-children
Book recently published by Sara Posner, also looks into these subjects,
http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Profits-Republican-Crusade-Values/dp/0979482216
Request for contributions viewable at http://sis359.blogspot.com

]]> By: trendyhipster http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-12849 trendyhipster Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:55:58 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-12849 Ok, I just thought I'd throw it out there because your descriptions did seem similar to my experience. And by playing along, I meant that my dad and his siblings "pretended" they believed as the rest of the household. That's what I about your wife, she's not pretending. I wish you the best. Ok, I just thought I’d throw it out there because your descriptions did seem similar to my experience.

And by playing along, I meant that my dad and his siblings “pretended” they believed as the rest of the household. That’s what I about your wife, she’s not pretending.

I wish you the best.

]]> By: JustCan't http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-12787 JustCan't Sat, 15 Dec 2007 23:01:24 +0000 http://de-conversion.com/2007/12/12/slain-in-the-spirit-by-an-atheist/#comment-12787 Trendy: No, he looks at all of the versions, or seems to look at at least three, see the way the verse changes, think about it, pray on it, and think about it some more. Then his decision is the word of God. He believes he doesn't practice religion -- that's for churches and fake Christians, he believes in the Bible, and the real and true Christianity. Then he does the same thing for you and tells you what to do, on God's wishes of course -- it's not him, he says. Don't blame him. He doesn't think it is a sin to walk into a church. I think if all of them thought exactly as he did and treated him as a holy man, he's be there today. Its just that his beliefs are so extreme and literal and he is so outspoken, that no one can put up with him. No, he's not connected to your minister, thank goodness. But, my wife is playing along though, and believes all of this 100%. She will go out to their farm tomorrow and won't be back for a couple of days. I can only imagine what the SOB will fill her head with next, or how he will try to escalate this or isolate me. Thanks for your comments, I appreciate them. Trendy:
No, he looks at all of the versions, or seems to look at at least three, see the way the verse changes, think about it, pray on it, and think about it some more. Then his decision is the word of God. He believes he doesn’t practice religion — that’s for churches and fake Christians, he believes in the Bible, and the real and true Christianity.

Then he does the same thing for you and tells you what to do, on God’s wishes of course — it’s not him, he says. Don’t blame him.

He doesn’t think it is a sin to walk into a church. I think if all of them thought exactly as he did and treated him as a holy man, he’s be there today. Its just that his beliefs are so extreme and literal and he is so outspoken, that no one can put up with him.

No, he’s not connected to your minister, thank goodness.

But, my wife is playing along though, and believes all of this 100%. She will go out to their farm tomorrow and won’t be back for a couple of days. I can only imagine what the SOB will fill her head with next, or how he will try to escalate this or isolate me.

Thanks for your comments, I appreciate them.

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