If black and Latino youth are disproportionately impoverished, undereducated and abused by police, doesn’t it follow that the justice system is racist as well?

Sorry, but I honestly don’t even see the connection between ‘impovrished… undereducated’ and ‘justice system is racist’. And ‘abused by the police’ is a claim, not a fact.

the basic facts that free condoms, comprehensive science-based public sex ed, and safe abortions lower the infant mortality rate and are part of human life and responsible sexual conduct.

“Basic facts” ? Sorry, but again I don’t see the connection.

Lower infant mortality is a consequence of better pre- and post-natal care and improved medical technology.

And how are ‘free condoms’, ‘science-based sex ed’, and ‘safe abortions’ a ‘part of human life’ or or ‘responsible sexual conduct’? I mean human life went on a long time without ‘free condoms’, ‘science-based sex ed’, and ‘safe abortions’. And abortions aren’t part of sexual conduct are they? Seems like responsible sexual conduct would eliminate the need for abortions.

Which is why I am in favor of “beyond the shadow of a doubt” as a level of proof for death penalty convictions.

Also, my experience as an intern for Planned Parenthood is that Christians who consider themselves ‘pro-life’ often have some problem with contraceptives or sex education–mind you, in varying degrees; arching from ‘umm…sex ed should be private and condoms are ok at this age’ to ‘no sex before marriage, EVER, virginity is holy, kill all abortionists, etc’. The scope of these degrees ignore the basic facts that free condoms, comprehensive science-based public sex ed, and safe abortions lower the infant mortality rate and are part of human life and responsible sexual conduct. Being anti-abortion *and * anti-sex ed etc, seem to be bundled up into one Dark Ages, misogynistic bundle much of the time.

Of course not all anti-abortion people are anti-sex ed, etc; I think that part of the reason ‘pro-life’ is used instead of specifically ‘anti-abortion’ (besides the PR) is because it encompasses other things that pro-lifers considered protective of ‘life’–like denying the morning after pill, birth control pills, condoms, science-based sex ed which may lead us into temptation, or whatever.

Which is one reason why we maybe shouldn’t make irrevocable decisions, like killing people who may not have done the crime they were convicted of.

I can see being pro-choice and anti-death penalty as a tenable position, particularly when considering who is on death row and why (overwhelmingly poor and black). I think it is far more tenable for those who struggle for societal progress to hold the above position, as opposed to

Upon reading this I have the following thoughts/questions. It is notable that as a trend, poor and black neighborhoods do in fact have much higher crime rates that non-poor, non-black neighborhoods. Could it be that the reason there are a disproportionate number of poor and black in prison is because they actually commit a disproportionate amount of crime?

So do we need to establish quotas for the death penalty? Why not just establish a standard of proof for it on the order of “beyond the shadow of a doubt” as opposed to “beyond a reasonable doubt”?

Another question springs for this ”considering who is on death row and why”. Do you really know why? I proposed that maybe it’s because they commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Seems there’s some support for that too.

being pro death penalty and “pro-life” (which nearly always includes being anti-contraceptive, education, etc).

???? Not in my reading, nor in my experience. Where did you get that from?

I meant that you can’t separate support for capital punishment from who is on death row and how the ‘justice’ system works in the U.S.

Who is on death row? Presumably murderers. Now I’m all for a high standard of proof for a death sentence. “Beyond the shadow of a doubt” would seem the only acceptable level. But then, given a fellow who gunned down 10 people in full view of witnesses and was caught on the scene, I’m all for removing him from the planet.

having the death penalty in the U.S. is absurd, considering how our racist court system works.

Sorry. Don’t buy it. I will readily acknowledge that money buys one off in the courts. So that would put the poor at a disadvantage. But I don’t buy the racism bit. (OK. In some towns I’ll buy it, but not countrywide.) When I see that minority neighborhoods have the highest crime rates, and see that more often than not they are committing crimes against others of their own race, I’m more inclined to conclude that a good chunk of “racism” is “homoracism” to coin a term.

Karen:

Let’s not forget the hundreds of people who are being freed today by DNA testing after being jailed unjustly for decades.

Most of whom weren’t under the death penalty. But I know some were. I’m all for a standard of “beyond a shadow of a doubt” for a death penalty conviction.

There’s good evidence that the system is broken.

Pish-posh. Broken? Hardly. Try running the stats on ‘correct convictions’ vs ‘incorrect convictions’. Be stingy with the former and very generous with the latter. You’ll find that the rightful conviction percentage still heavily outweighs the wrongful ones.

The system is not broken. It’s simply imperfect. Like everything we humans do.

Let’s not forget the hundreds of people who are being freed today by DNA testing after being jailed unjustly for decades. There’s good evidence that the system is broken.

But such people are still better off than apostates that leave the Christian profession all together — which is what this site represents.

Y’know, your dire threats and warnings aren’t going to get you very far here. If we’re such dangerous people, why do you bother interacting with us? Aren’t you afraid of being tainted by association?

I can see being pro-choice and anti-death penalty as a tenable position, particularly when considering who is on death row and why (overwhelmingly poor and black). I think it is far more tenable for those who struggle for societal progress to hold the above position, as opposed to being pro death penalty and “pro-life” (which nearly always includes being anti-contraceptive, education, etc). The second position prefers Dark Ages reasoning.