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	<title>Comments on: How to discover counterfeit Christianity?</title>
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	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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		<title>By: Lou Martuneac</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15462</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Martuneac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15462</guid>
		<description>Leo:

You mentioned visiting my site.  

For those who want to read how I handed the report of Jeremy&#039;s dismissal and the notes in the thread that I, in part, directed to him, here is the link.

http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2008/01/grace-evangelical-society-dismisses.html


LM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leo:</p>
<p>You mentioned visiting my site.  </p>
<p>For those who want to read how I handed the report of Jeremy&#8217;s dismissal and the notes in the thread that I, in part, directed to him, here is the link.</p>
<p><a href="http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2008/01/grace-evangelical-society-dismisses.html" rel="nofollow">http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2008/01/grace-evangelical-society-dismisses.html</a></p>
<p>LM</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Martuneac</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15460</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Martuneac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15460</guid>
		<description>Karen wrote, &quot;&lt;i&gt;unlike his Christian peers like yourself who were kind enough to get him FIRED!? &lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Jeremy got himself fired and if he were to do the honest thing he would personally put a stop to the on-going rumor/lie that I got him fired.


LM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen wrote, &#8220;<i>unlike his Christian peers like yourself who were kind enough to get him FIRED!? </i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Jeremy got himself fired and if he were to do the honest thing he would personally put a stop to the on-going rumor/lie that I got him fired.</p>
<p>LM</p>
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		<title>By: LeoPardus</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15453</link>
		<dc:creator>LeoPardus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15453</guid>
		<description>You are welcome Jeremy.  

BTW, I looked at Lou&#039;s site. He said he&#039;s willing to help if you&#039;re at all interested in his area of work. Others there expressed concern and interest in what line of work you might look for.  Sounds like you just might be able to get quite a network going.  A good thing to be sure. You just never know where a great opportunity might come from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are welcome Jeremy.  </p>
<p>BTW, I looked at Lou&#8217;s site. He said he&#8217;s willing to help if you&#8217;re at all interested in his area of work. Others there expressed concern and interest in what line of work you might look for.  Sounds like you just might be able to get quite a network going.  A good thing to be sure. You just never know where a great opportunity might come from.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15444</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15444</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the support everyone! 

Michelle, thanks for the story of you and your husband have gotten through life. It helps me see others who have been through the same thing, and what they are doing now. 

Karen and LeoPardus, thanks for the encouragement. I will definitely go get that book today. When I get a job, I&#039;ll be thanking you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the support everyone! </p>
<p>Michelle, thanks for the story of you and your husband have gotten through life. It helps me see others who have been through the same thing, and what they are doing now. </p>
<p>Karen and LeoPardus, thanks for the encouragement. I will definitely go get that book today. When I get a job, I&#8217;ll be thanking you!</p>
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		<title>By: LeoPardus</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15439</link>
		<dc:creator>LeoPardus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15439</guid>
		<description>Jeremy:

You are right about not being able to question things. It should always be allowed and even encouraged. Sadly a lot of folks, like Wilkins, are very insecure in spite of the bold face that put on. Threaten their fragile world and they just cannot deal with it.

Karen rightly pointed out that you have good writing skills. If you also have good general communication skills, people skills, and the ability to think and learn &quot;on the fly&quot;, then you have a very useful combination of abilities.

I make my living writing biomedical stuff. At my company there are two people with no science background to speak of.  Between the two of them they edit, help with trip and meeting planning, find and work with contract help, intercede with programmers (&#039;cause the rest of us can&#039;t speak their language), and help with structuring much of what we science geeks write.  I suspect that you could fit into some of that.

Take a look at places that might need writers, editors, or the like. Basically, if you&#039;re good at communications, you&#039;re marketable.

Here&#039;s one more for you. Go get a book. It is titled &quot;Knock &#039;Em Dead&quot; by Martin Yate. It is by far the best job hunting book out there. (It literally outsells the number 2 through 5 books combined.) Yate will help you to assess your skills, put together better resumes and cover letters, look for places where jobs might be, get interviews, and do well in those interviews.  I&#039;ve recommended the book to several people. Every one of them who went and got it, thanked me. Oh, and they all got jobs too. Minor detail.

Best to you man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy:</p>
<p>You are right about not being able to question things. It should always be allowed and even encouraged. Sadly a lot of folks, like Wilkins, are very insecure in spite of the bold face that put on. Threaten their fragile world and they just cannot deal with it.</p>
<p>Karen rightly pointed out that you have good writing skills. If you also have good general communication skills, people skills, and the ability to think and learn &#8220;on the fly&#8221;, then you have a very useful combination of abilities.</p>
<p>I make my living writing biomedical stuff. At my company there are two people with no science background to speak of.  Between the two of them they edit, help with trip and meeting planning, find and work with contract help, intercede with programmers (&#8217;cause the rest of us can&#8217;t speak their language), and help with structuring much of what we science geeks write.  I suspect that you could fit into some of that.</p>
<p>Take a look at places that might need writers, editors, or the like. Basically, if you&#8217;re good at communications, you&#8217;re marketable.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s one more for you. Go get a book. It is titled &#8220;Knock &#8216;Em Dead&#8221; by Martin Yate. It is by far the best job hunting book out there. (It literally outsells the number 2 through 5 books combined.) Yate will help you to assess your skills, put together better resumes and cover letters, look for places where jobs might be, get interviews, and do well in those interviews.  I&#8217;ve recommended the book to several people. Every one of them who went and got it, thanked me. Oh, and they all got jobs too. Minor detail.</p>
<p>Best to you man.</p>
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		<title>By: karen</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15438</link>
		<dc:creator>karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15438</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Anybody know a way that somone with no education or training in anything but Bible and theology can provide for a wife and three kids outside of a “church” setting?&lt;/i&gt;

Jeremy, you&#039;re very literate and write wonderfully. That&#039;s a skill that&#039;s very much in need at all kinds of companies these days, from service businesses to manufacturers, because so much of business is accomplished online now and being online means communicating (to customers, suppliers, competitors) in writing.

An office job won&#039;t pay you a lot, but it should probably pay more than minimum wage and it might be enough to tide you guys over until you get another career going. How about your wife? Many of the moms in my neighborhood get part-time jobs at their kids schools doing things like teacher&#039;s aid, office receptionist, playground aid, etc. It doesn&#039;t pay a lot but it helps and it offers hours that are compatible with children&#039;s schedules.

&lt;i&gt;Why do you air details of your dismissal at this blog, which largely stands for the very things that you or any man in a Bible-believing Christian ministry would be fired over?&lt;/i&gt;

Um, maybe it&#039;s because we offer a sympathetic ear and have been kind enough to reach out to him and support him, unlike his Christian peers like yourself who were kind enough to get him FIRED!? You are really giving Christians a bad name, Lou. If I were still a believer I&#039;d be ashamed to be associated with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Anybody know a way that somone with no education or training in anything but Bible and theology can provide for a wife and three kids outside of a “church” setting?</i></p>
<p>Jeremy, you&#8217;re very literate and write wonderfully. That&#8217;s a skill that&#8217;s very much in need at all kinds of companies these days, from service businesses to manufacturers, because so much of business is accomplished online now and being online means communicating (to customers, suppliers, competitors) in writing.</p>
<p>An office job won&#8217;t pay you a lot, but it should probably pay more than minimum wage and it might be enough to tide you guys over until you get another career going. How about your wife? Many of the moms in my neighborhood get part-time jobs at their kids schools doing things like teacher&#8217;s aid, office receptionist, playground aid, etc. It doesn&#8217;t pay a lot but it helps and it offers hours that are compatible with children&#8217;s schedules.</p>
<p><i>Why do you air details of your dismissal at this blog, which largely stands for the very things that you or any man in a Bible-believing Christian ministry would be fired over?</i></p>
<p>Um, maybe it&#8217;s because we offer a sympathetic ear and have been kind enough to reach out to him and support him, unlike his Christian peers like yourself who were kind enough to get him FIRED!? You are really giving Christians a bad name, Lou. If I were still a believer I&#8217;d be ashamed to be associated with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15434</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15434</guid>
		<description>Jeremy,  we went through a similar circumstance when we were deciding on what denomination to attend.  My husband has a BA in Religion, an MA in Speech, a partial MDIV (that&#039;s when the change occurred and so he never finished seminary), and work toward his PhD in Communications.  (Not meaning to brag, but I am really proud of him)  He began working as a baker and a painter to make ends meet.  I stayed at home with the babies.  In time, it felt like forever, we moved to Texas and now he&#039;s in computers.  He was just a hacker, but with great troubleshooting abilities.  In the desert He made a way - I&#039;ll be praying  for your needs.

Blessings,  Michelle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy,  we went through a similar circumstance when we were deciding on what denomination to attend.  My husband has a BA in Religion, an MA in Speech, a partial MDIV (that&#8217;s when the change occurred and so he never finished seminary), and work toward his PhD in Communications.  (Not meaning to brag, but I am really proud of him)  He began working as a baker and a painter to make ends meet.  I stayed at home with the babies.  In time, it felt like forever, we moved to Texas and now he&#8217;s in computers.  He was just a hacker, but with great troubleshooting abilities.  In the desert He made a way &#8211; I&#8217;ll be praying  for your needs.</p>
<p>Blessings,  Michelle.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Martuneac</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15431</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Martuneac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15431</guid>
		<description>Jeremy:

Why do you air details of your dismissal at this blog, which largely stands for the very things that you or any man in a Bible-believing Christian ministry would be fired over?


LM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy:</p>
<p>Why do you air details of your dismissal at this blog, which largely stands for the very things that you or any man in a Bible-believing Christian ministry would be fired over?</p>
<p>LM</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15400</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15400</guid>
		<description>LeoPardus, 

I wonder the same thing you wonder. Too many of us Christians have our head stuck in 1000 year-old sand. Some serious questions need to be raised about our tradition and our understanding of Scriptures. 

Regarding a precis of my resume...I suppose I could do that on my own blog. I would hate to impose here. 

My problem is that I&#039;m not sure how I want to proceed as far as &quot;making a living&quot; is concerned. I&#039;m pretty &quot;burned out&quot; by ministry right now...as least, the traditional, tow-the-party-line type of ministry. But, with my background and training, I don&#039;t have a skillset for anything else. I mean, I can flip burgers and wait tables...but that&#039;s about it. 

Anybody know a way that somone with no education or training in anything but Bible and theology can provide for a wife and three kids outside of a &quot;church&quot; setting? 

I&#039;ve applied for fifteen different jobs so far...and been turned down for about eleven already. The reason? &quot;Not enough experience.&quot;  I got offered a job today though...at $8 an hour. Try raising three kids on that!

Maybe now that I have a Master&#039;s Degree in Bible and Theology, and I&#039;m up to my ears in debt, I should go back to school and learn something useful. 

Who knows? Maybe Lou will hire me. He&#039;s some sort of car salesman or something in Illinois. Then he can bring me under his wing and guide me back into the truth...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LeoPardus, </p>
<p>I wonder the same thing you wonder. Too many of us Christians have our head stuck in 1000 year-old sand. Some serious questions need to be raised about our tradition and our understanding of Scriptures. </p>
<p>Regarding a precis of my resume&#8230;I suppose I could do that on my own blog. I would hate to impose here. </p>
<p>My problem is that I&#8217;m not sure how I want to proceed as far as &#8220;making a living&#8221; is concerned. I&#8217;m pretty &#8220;burned out&#8221; by ministry right now&#8230;as least, the traditional, tow-the-party-line type of ministry. But, with my background and training, I don&#8217;t have a skillset for anything else. I mean, I can flip burgers and wait tables&#8230;but that&#8217;s about it. </p>
<p>Anybody know a way that somone with no education or training in anything but Bible and theology can provide for a wife and three kids outside of a &#8220;church&#8221; setting? </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve applied for fifteen different jobs so far&#8230;and been turned down for about eleven already. The reason? &#8220;Not enough experience.&#8221;  I got offered a job today though&#8230;at $8 an hour. Try raising three kids on that!</p>
<p>Maybe now that I have a Master&#8217;s Degree in Bible and Theology, and I&#8217;m up to my ears in debt, I should go back to school and learn something useful. </p>
<p>Who knows? Maybe Lou will hire me. He&#8217;s some sort of car salesman or something in Illinois. Then he can bring me under his wing and guide me back into the truth&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15399</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/2008/01/05/how-to-discover-counterfeit-christianity/#comment-15399</guid>
		<description>Hughvic, 

I don&#039;t mind your question at all. 

Ironically, I still believe in the seven things I am investigating further. That&#039;s what baffles me so much about my termination. The ministry I worked for has a clear and detailed doctrinal statement. To this day, I still hold to it 100%. I simply wanted to investigate some other approaches to certain doctrines. But as I found out (a little too late), asking questions was off limits. 

So they didn&#039;t fire me because I stopped believing some of their core doctrines, but becuase I wanted to study views that were contrary to those doctrines. I was told that studying such views brings major discredit to the ministry. Personally, I thought it was a way to help the ministry...

I will admit that there was a possibility that I might stop believing some of those seven doctrines that I listed in the way that the ministry believed them. If that had happened, I would have resigned. 

I figure that genuine truth can handle every and any question or objection thrown at it. But how can we really know that what we believe is true if we don&#039;t even allow the questions to get asked or the objections to be raised?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hughvic, </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mind your question at all. </p>
<p>Ironically, I still believe in the seven things I am investigating further. That&#8217;s what baffles me so much about my termination. The ministry I worked for has a clear and detailed doctrinal statement. To this day, I still hold to it 100%. I simply wanted to investigate some other approaches to certain doctrines. But as I found out (a little too late), asking questions was off limits. </p>
<p>So they didn&#8217;t fire me because I stopped believing some of their core doctrines, but becuase I wanted to study views that were contrary to those doctrines. I was told that studying such views brings major discredit to the ministry. Personally, I thought it was a way to help the ministry&#8230;</p>
<p>I will admit that there was a possibility that I might stop believing some of those seven doctrines that I listed in the way that the ministry believed them. If that had happened, I would have resigned. </p>
<p>I figure that genuine truth can handle every and any question or objection thrown at it. But how can we really know that what we believe is true if we don&#8217;t even allow the questions to get asked or the objections to be raised?</p>
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