3.2 If there is a significant division of informed opinion about any claims made in a
marketing communication they should not be portrayed as generally agreed.

The second of these, to my mind, is decisive as regards the theist bus adverts. So, if 3.2 is enforced, will this constrain religious expression in an egregious, anti-liberal way? I’d like to put it to you that it will not. The appropriate and accurate way for a theist organisation to express their beliefs truly is to advertise that “we the members of such-and-such organisation believe that god definitely exists”. This would be a true statement of fact that would constitute full and adequate religious expression.

To hold any one group to a lesser standard than this would be to show favouritism to that group and thereby infringe on the rights of groups with apposing views. If you agree with me, you can file a complaint with the ASA here.

Even though I don’t agree with the choice for unbelief, I don’t diss it either. It was my right to chose belief, just as it is the right of every person to not chose belief

Hear Hear! I wish all believers had that attitude!

asa lama lakem!

Lots of issues here.

First: Drop the Christianity if evil, harmful, etc. It will get you nowhere with anyone who doesn’t already agree with you. (And it’s not a given anyway. Just your opinion. An opinion not even shared by all atheists.)

Second: She changed in just the last 4 weeks??!! How long has she been going with this guy? A sudden change is hardly the foundation for a life-long relationship. The guy, if a committed Christian for any length of time, ought to know that. If he’s also a recent convert, then they are really headed for a mess.

Third: Was she a rational atheist before or just an atheist by happenstance? If she was thinking before, then you need to ask what changed her thinking. (If “I’m in luuuuuv” changed her “thinking”, then she’s in trouble in the near future, when the hormones calm down and the brain kicks back into gear.)

I’d say the way to broach the subject is to ask her, “Only a month ago, on Easter Sunday you were telling people Jesus didn’t exist. Now you want to pursue a relationship with him. What has changed? Tell me what happened in the last few weeks.”

Once you’ve done that, you should clam up and listen. Ask questions for clarification only. Once you’ve got the whole story, stop and think carefully before doing anything else.

If she thinks she’s seen a miracle, or been visited by an angel, or some such, you’ve got a big problem. I don’t know how you’d convince her that wasn’t the case. It would depend on the experience.

For most other reasons, you may try asking questions derived from “atheist apologetics”. Keep it all in the spirit of “I don’t understand what’s happened to you my friend, so I’m asking to make some sense of it”.

For the most part though it sounds like hormones currently hold the upper hand. Since hormones (or luuuuuuv) are so notorious for stifling brain cells, you may have to let things ride for a while until she cools down.

I’ll be interested to hear how it works out.

A very dear friend of mine is in the process of converting to Christianity. Her primary motivation appears to be to reconciling her past spiritual-but-not-religious beliefs with the beliefs of the man who may very well be the love of her life, a committed Christian. The little I know about him says he’s a good man, and I have never seen her this happy. I am concerned for her nonetheless.

I’ve come to believe that Christianity, like any religion, is actually detrimental to society and to personal growth. I’m conflicted about whether to talk to her about this belief, and if so, how. If I say nothing, she will almost certainly continue down the path to conversion. She has already said she’s “decided to pursue [her] relationship with Jesus Christ.” (On Easter Sunday she was telling people Jesus didn’t exist. Now she calls him Jesus Christ. It kills me.) If I try to present the argument that Christianity is harmful, she will almost certainly view it as questioning her ability to make informed, intelligent decisions, and might see it as an attempt to interfere in her relationship.

The ideal outcome is that they both abandon the religion entirely and live out their lives as rational atheists. I have no illusions that this will happen, however, and so the “best” possible outcome is that she rejects it for herself, almost certainly destroying any chance of marriage to this man, and leaving him believing that a loved one is going to Hell. Even that seems unlikely, though, so I’m left with the decision to either bring it up out of principle, knowing that I’ll only hurt her feelings, or let it lie, knowing that she’s heading down a path to, at best, happy self-delusion, but possibly (probably) much worse.

This feels like a real lose-lose situation to me, and I can’t see a happy outcome for it. She’s faced with disappointing one of us, no matter what. I’m faced with either causing her grief now, or allowing it later. If anyone has any thoughts on how to ethically resolve this conflict, prioritizing the best interests of my friend, I’d be grateful to hear them.

The word ‘islam’ means submission. Obviously submission to the will of Allah, as prescribed in the five pillars of faith. The big-4 monotheisms are alike in dismissing an individual’s will, “not my will but thy will done” as we’re shown in the poignant scene at Gethsemane in the NT. (But, this god-man is no hero.)

For such empire building religions, self-assertion takes on the character not of honest questioning and personal growth, but of insubordination and rebellion. (Can’t be godly cannon fodder unless you obey orders, mister.)

>> One sick danish strudel to go, please

With characteristic, combative verve, Kierkegaard condemns the doubter as insubordinate, a rebel against fideism:

“They would have us believe that objections against Christianity come from doubt. This is always a misunderstanding. Objections against Christianity come from insubordination, unwillingness to obey, rebellion against all authority. Therefore, they have been beating the air against the objectors, because they have fought intellectually [against] doubt, instead of fighting ethically [against] rebellion. . . .So it is not properly doubt but insubordination.” (Lowrie 122)

Thus, SK. Almost needless to say, but SK’s “argument” works equally “well” in the mouth of any doctrinaire muslim, jew, or zoroastrian. Just as it does for any cultist. . . and for the 4-faced near eastern godhead who presides over those three well-known, well-financed, and power hungry money making cults.

>> Got guilt? Well, why not, sinner?

It’s not surprising that even attempting to leave a religious culture which demands ’subordination’ or ’submission’ to someone else’s interpretation of an alleged “will of god” adversely affects the psychological well-being of the “apostate.” Guilt feelings get induced. Needless guilt is the elder brother of nonexistent “sin.”

Becoming-who-you-are or “individuation” (to use Jung’s terminology) is the goal of personal growth. It cannot occur without self-doubt or without doubting authority and authority figures. When you’ve made a “leap of faith” into hyper-religious space there is no return except by self-assertion, and doubt is just a form of it. You want to emulate Prometheus and cease wanting to mirror Jesus. (The hero labors, struggles, succeeds, or dies trying; but throughout remains human.)

>> Religious “commitment” is not a choice; it’s a moral cop-out

Irrational self-assertion characterizes the popular culture, the “secular” culture. Irrational fideism characterizes fundamentalism, jewish, xian, or islamic.

Tolerance, that wide band of humane behavior, lies between inhuman anarchy and inhuman puritanism. Trying to navigate in that band requires years of training and making a lot of mistakes. And, there is no end to learning until life itself ends.

bipolar2
© 2008

Paul”

Paul,

I actually just wrote a short blub in my blog about some experiences with people at my school. Though to be fair, the entry is more for humor.

Only the one girl at my dojo knows I am a “secular Christian”, and we barely know one another. I am also afraid if I “came out of the closet”, too many people again would be hurt. My opinions are my own; I live and let live.