We generally don’t. We generally only take notice when religious beliefs try to be imposed on the rest of society or when a religious groups gets undue benefit or exemptions from law based on their beliefs, when the rest of society has to obey the law.

If we are merely matter in motion, why does anything matter in terms of value?

Misleading premise in that question. Once again, a theist attempting to tie ethics and morality to a supernatural being. It simply does not work that way. Try research the Social Contract or Evolutionary Morality.

I know I’ll get an answer here so I’ll ask: Can anyone show me either qualitatively or quantitatively how a nonatheistic belief has impeded the progress of science?

History and even current news indicates that theism is generally very much anti-progress. Examples: When someone translated the bible into english for the first time, the Pope was so infuriated that … even years later … he had the man’s bones dug up and thrown in a river. Then you have the churches conflict with scientists through the renaissance. Even in the current day, you have some whacky people trying to insert creationism and intelligent design into science classes at school level (when neither have the slightest thing to do with science).

There are a great deal more examples than that but I think you get the general idea.

I know I’ll get an answer here so I’ll ask: Can anyone show me either qualitatively or quantitatively how a nonatheistic belief has impeded the progress of science?

I just got a copy of The God Delusion today – maybe I’ll find an example in there.

Thanks again for the post.

OC
http://www.offensivechristians.com/blog

Parents, who are often the worst of indoctrinators in terms of religious beliefs, are also those same people who readily tell such falsehoods as the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus when there really is no need at all.

Santa as a kid-friendly tale to explain christmas? Why? Why not just say “It’s just a day where people decide to be really extra nice to everyone else”.

On the truth of Atheism versus the falsehood of Theism, I asked my wife this question (who is still a Christian):

What is more likely to be true? That which I was taught as a child by authority figures in my life whom I loved and respected, whose every word I trusted? Or that which I discover when I’m older, more educated and more mature? And could it be evidence of Truth that in a short span of 5 years what I’ve discovered has shattered the indoctrination of 30 years? What argument displayed the most power?

On the topic of original sin – I don’t think I am worthless because Adam munched an apple a while back. I do think that I have the capacity to do evil – that there is no fundamental difference between me and those who commit acts of atrocity, and I need to keep that capacity in check. I am not worthless, but I do need to look to higher moral authority to help me not be so selfish and look to the needs of others. I find that in the teachings of Jesus.

On Rick Warren – I don’t think his point (although I admittedly didn’t watch the clip) is that this life is a throw away. His point was (I have heard this argument before) that what we do NOW will effect our eternal experience. This life, this here and now, is the most important, the foundation upon which eternity is based. HOWEVER – the point is not to get into heaven, or to get in with all kinds of bonus points – but rather to bring the ultimate paradise to the people of this world.

I don’t have this whole thing figured out yet, my faith that is, and I am looking for examine what I believe critically. Please know that that is my angle here – not to slap anyone down.

The search for significance is an integral part of the human condition and I think your post was a poignant description of that journey.

re. my comment about atheists & God – I was just being facetious

One of the qualities that I admire about some atheists is their inquiring mind and their commitment to critical thinking. Theology is so much more than esoteric topics & dusty tomes filled with someone’s interpretation of ancient texts.

Theology is (or should be) a constantly evolving process that does not seek to pin down finite answers but that provokes questions and research. If you have a view about God (one way or the other), that is your theology. Sadly, many ppl rely on imbedded theology passed down from parents or peers and do not seek to find out what they believe and why. (btw – karl barth is a brilliant read for anyone interested in practical theology – barth was a great thinker and commited to knowledge and discovery).

Re. your brother-in-law – good on him for enjoying the esoteric but that sort of stuff drives me nuts and bores me to tears! Honestly, I couldn’t give a rat’s about the Rapture – I figure if it’s going to happen, it’ll happen when it happens. I love the Scriptures but I think many Christians over-complicate it or focus on issues that are complicated to the exclusion of what is painfully obvious (eg. feed & clothe the poor, defend the oppressed & disadvantaged, be strong of character but gentle in nature,etc, etc).

I think the mystery still remains outside these issues. The search for purpose is a vastly mysterious and strange journey. I have some sense of purpose that I attribute to my faith and as being part of a faith-based community but my life is broader than that and I think I ask the same questions as anyone else. Why am I here? What am I truly meant to do? Who am I meant to be? Finding these things out is all the mystery I can handle!

Loved your post! We atheists DO speak a lot about God. Interesting… It might be because we are surrounded by it (like talking politics even though you might not vote) or because it is a fun topic that everyone has an opinion about. We may talk about it a lot if we were once Christians, but now are atheists. This is why I talk about it. It’s almost therapy for my mind. I NEED to talk about it. I need to establish a new footing for my life. I need the reasoned arguments that only come from a lot of voices, posts, views, etc. I think we also talk a lot about god as Atheists because EVERYONE needs a purpose in life, and the religious automatically have one (heaven, eternal rewards, etc.) but the Atheist has to muddle through their own discovery of reality and search for a significance. If not God, then what? That is the big, yearning question of my heart. More money? Sex? Pleasure? Golf? If not God (and for most de-converts we know all too well the pleasures and comfort that a religion can bring) if not God, then what? So we talk about it… It does come as a strange phenomenon… those who do not believe often talk alot about that in which they don’t believe…

I have a brother-in-law who LOVES to talk about THEOLOGY. He just loves to discuss the rapture, the signs of the times, the prophecies, the Feasts of the Old Testament, all the symbolism, the miracles and their meanings. He loves interpreting all of these mysteries and talking about them. Now, as a former Christian, I’ve LOST all of that mystery. I miss it, to a point. It IS interesting if you believe it to be true. It’s nonsense if you’re an Atheist. Maybe we Atheists talk about the delusion of God and the Universe’s Beginning because it’s the mystery that we still have left to discuss that we believe to exist.

God gave me free will and He can handle my queries & challlenges, even if His church can’t . The fact that my reasoning has not lead me to de-convert is the path that I have chosen. There may not be irrefutable, tangible evidence that God exists (take a breathe all those who think there is – this is my view, doesn’t have to be yours) but there is also no hard and fast proof that He doesn’t. It is my choice.

Glad you enjoyed the quote, euphonos. Here’s my take on believing in god (which I just happened to post on another forum today):

Theism – an interactive god – obviously makes no sense. I’ve examined the apologetics that are brought forth to justify it (free will, Satan, etc) backwards, forwards and sideways and they do not hold water for me.

If there’s a benevolent deity and an afterlife in another, as-yet-undetectable dimension, I’ll be pleasantly surprised after death. If there’s not, I’ll be dead so I can’t be disappointed. This is why it makes the most sense to me to live as an agnostic atheist.

As for why atheists talk about god- isn’t it obvious? We’re in a culture steeped in religion, surrounded by believers who distrust us and often villianize us for not sharing their supernatural belief system. For us deconverts, it’s even closer because we were once believers (probably as devout or more than most) and our families and friends still are.