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	<title>Comments on: The thrill of discovery</title>
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	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Apostate</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19113</link>
		<dc:creator>The Apostate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 16:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19113</guid>
		<description>Anon,
&lt;blockquote&gt;...clearly there’s no need in trying to de-convert me...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
There isn't. Nor I we trying. You found us, you came here with your sewage, you dropped a bit of pseudo-science and airy-fairy New Age spiritualism and left. We see trolls from a mile a way. Some are worth engaging with, others... aren't. Personally, I have no problem with a discussion, no matter how obscure it appears, so long as my philosophical opponent has some initial and hopefully ongoing respect. My guess, however, by the way you "barged" in here giving a bunch of non-argument, that you wouldn't do that in my house face to face. I don't respect that. I wouldn't crash into your house, point my finger making ludicrous assumptions about your belief system, build a straw man, push it over, and then stomp out the door, only to come back and laugh about the straw all over the floor and everyone ignoring the mess.

But if you need to know why we are ignoring you, it might have something to do with these following comments:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Life is empty without God.

A lot of atheists believe in God- they don’t want to admit it. If they do, they feel like there’s a God out there that will judge them.

Why is it that atheists only try to attack a God of vengeance? They find the most ignorant and hateful parts of the Bible to defend why they don’t believe in God.

Particles and subatomic particles are made up of quarks, and those quarks are made of particles as well. They go on for infinity. There are many atheists who are saying that there is a unifying intelligent field, a living field...

How can religions over thousands of years old say the same thing as the emerging sciences of today...

I believe in God because I know what God is like. I’ve experienced God. No one can truly know that God exists until they experience God for themselves....

...just because God doesn’t work for you, doesn’t mean that he doesn’t work for me.

Oh yeah, I didn’t get my “ideas” from my imagination. I got them from many ancient texts from around the world. Read upon them more often.

I don’t have to back up my ideas with science. All you need is plain common sense. 

Everything needs to be made up of something in order to support itself. Since everything needs something else to support its structure, then that must go on for infinity.

It’s like everyone can criticize something without trying it for themselves, that is, if doesn’t harm anyone. Currently, you have not explained yourself, I think you are full of BS.

then how come they all say pretty much the same thing, that God is in everything, and yet they are centuries apart, some millenniums, and continents apart.

In the defense of my religious claims, there are many religions that do say that there is God in everythin, or at least everyone. The best way to prove this is to experience it for yourself.

Self-discovery is the key to knowlecge, and believe me, there’s much knowledge and wonder in the realm of spirituality.

[Einstein] belived that science and religion should be merged, and I believe so too

Spirituality in itself is a science, and it needs the same kind of attention as every other science out there. I guess people keep science and religion separate because they fear being wrong, and that’s for both sides.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You make a lot of claims but you back nothing up. If I am going to spend time "defeating" your claims, I need something to defeat! So far there appears only to be the ramblings of a New Age flake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon,</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;clearly there’s no need in trying to de-convert me&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>There isn&#8217;t. Nor I we trying. You found us, you came here with your sewage, you dropped a bit of pseudo-science and airy-fairy New Age spiritualism and left. We see trolls from a mile a way. Some are worth engaging with, others&#8230; aren&#8217;t. Personally, I have no problem with a discussion, no matter how obscure it appears, so long as my philosophical opponent has some initial and hopefully ongoing respect. My guess, however, by the way you &#8220;barged&#8221; in here giving a bunch of non-argument, that you wouldn&#8217;t do that in my house face to face. I don&#8217;t respect that. I wouldn&#8217;t crash into your house, point my finger making ludicrous assumptions about your belief system, build a straw man, push it over, and then stomp out the door, only to come back and laugh about the straw all over the floor and everyone ignoring the mess.</p>
<p>But if you need to know why we are ignoring you, it might have something to do with these following comments:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Life is empty without God.</p>
<p>A lot of atheists believe in God- they don’t want to admit it. If they do, they feel like there’s a God out there that will judge them.</p>
<p>Why is it that atheists only try to attack a God of vengeance? They find the most ignorant and hateful parts of the Bible to defend why they don’t believe in God.</p>
<p>Particles and subatomic particles are made up of quarks, and those quarks are made of particles as well. They go on for infinity. There are many atheists who are saying that there is a unifying intelligent field, a living field&#8230;</p>
<p>How can religions over thousands of years old say the same thing as the emerging sciences of today&#8230;</p>
<p>I believe in God because I know what God is like. I’ve experienced God. No one can truly know that God exists until they experience God for themselves&#8230;.</p>
<p>&#8230;just because God doesn’t work for you, doesn’t mean that he doesn’t work for me.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, I didn’t get my “ideas” from my imagination. I got them from many ancient texts from around the world. Read upon them more often.</p>
<p>I don’t have to back up my ideas with science. All you need is plain common sense. </p>
<p>Everything needs to be made up of something in order to support itself. Since everything needs something else to support its structure, then that must go on for infinity.</p>
<p>It’s like everyone can criticize something without trying it for themselves, that is, if doesn’t harm anyone. Currently, you have not explained yourself, I think you are full of BS.</p>
<p>then how come they all say pretty much the same thing, that God is in everything, and yet they are centuries apart, some millenniums, and continents apart.</p>
<p>In the defense of my religious claims, there are many religions that do say that there is God in everythin, or at least everyone. The best way to prove this is to experience it for yourself.</p>
<p>Self-discovery is the key to knowlecge, and believe me, there’s much knowledge and wonder in the realm of spirituality.</p>
<p>[Einstein] belived that science and religion should be merged, and I believe so too</p>
<p>Spirituality in itself is a science, and it needs the same kind of attention as every other science out there. I guess people keep science and religion separate because they fear being wrong, and that’s for both sides.</p></blockquote>
<p>You make a lot of claims but you back nothing up. If I am going to spend time &#8220;defeating&#8221; your claims, I need something to defeat! So far there appears only to be the ramblings of a New Age flake.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19112</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 15:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19112</guid>
		<description>I only heard about Einstein being Jewish, but I did look up what he believes about God. He believed that we are all one with God. He belived that science and religion should be merged, and I believe so too. I don't understand why religion and science have to be separate. Oh I know why-It's because people keep it separate. That in itself is lunacy. Spirituality in itself is a science, and it needs the same kind of attention as every other science out there. I guess people keep science and religion separate because they fear being wrong, and that's for both sides. Scientists and religious people must realize that they can't be right all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only heard about Einstein being Jewish, but I did look up what he believes about God. He believed that we are all one with God. He belived that science and religion should be merged, and I believe so too. I don&#8217;t understand why religion and science have to be separate. Oh I know why-It&#8217;s because people keep it separate. That in itself is lunacy. Spirituality in itself is a science, and it needs the same kind of attention as every other science out there. I guess people keep science and religion separate because they fear being wrong, and that&#8217;s for both sides. Scientists and religious people must realize that they can&#8217;t be right all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19111</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 15:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19111</guid>
		<description>I'm back! clearly there's no need in trying to de-convert me because you haven't put up a decent arguement to counter my claims. So far, I have not had anyone tell me what their beliefs are and how they can counter and defeat mine. No one has told me WHY my views are BS. All I've been getting are opinions as well. I can't state my opinions but you can? That doesn't make any sense. In the defense of my religious claims, there are many religions that do say that there is God in everythin, or at least everyone. The best way to prove this is to experience it for yourself. Face the facts, you will never have anyone be able to prove that God exists, only you can do that. Self-discovery is the key to knowlecge, and believe me, there's much knowledge and wonder in the realm of spirituality. Like nature, there are many mysteries within spirituality. You just have to keep an open mind. Oh yeah, if Einstein was alive today, would you tell him that the God he believes in is a fraud, because last time I checked he was Jewish. (Lighten up, it's a little joke)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m back! clearly there&#8217;s no need in trying to de-convert me because you haven&#8217;t put up a decent arguement to counter my claims. So far, I have not had anyone tell me what their beliefs are and how they can counter and defeat mine. No one has told me WHY my views are BS. All I&#8217;ve been getting are opinions as well. I can&#8217;t state my opinions but you can? That doesn&#8217;t make any sense. In the defense of my religious claims, there are many religions that do say that there is God in everythin, or at least everyone. The best way to prove this is to experience it for yourself. Face the facts, you will never have anyone be able to prove that God exists, only you can do that. Self-discovery is the key to knowlecge, and believe me, there&#8217;s much knowledge and wonder in the realm of spirituality. Like nature, there are many mysteries within spirituality. You just have to keep an open mind. Oh yeah, if Einstein was alive today, would you tell him that the God he believes in is a fraud, because last time I checked he was Jewish. (Lighten up, it&#8217;s a little joke)</p>
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		<title>By: The Apostate</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19069</link>
		<dc:creator>The Apostate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19069</guid>
		<description>Anon states, matter of factly,
&lt;blockquote&gt;If many religions and cultures believe that all life is created from spirit and/or believe in a God figure, then how come they all say pretty much the same thing, that God is in everything, and yet they are centuries apart, some millenniums, and continents apart.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

1) They don't all say pretty much the same thing, that God is in everything. Panentheism is very common, but hardly universal: try pre-rabbinical Judaism/Yahwehism or many traditions of Buddhism for example. 
2) Panentheism is easily explained as humankind's perpetual need to comprehend the universe that surrounds it. Not only does panentheism attempt this, while obviously simplifying reality, it also allows the religionist to place him or her self at the center of the universe, often portrayed or replicated in his or her country (Palestine, Saudi Arabia), city (Jerusalem, Mecca), temple, or in the case of Christianity, soul.

I would suggest Mircea Eliade's "The Sacred and the Profane" - you may find it enlightening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon states, matter of factly,</p>
<blockquote><p>If many religions and cultures believe that all life is created from spirit and/or believe in a God figure, then how come they all say pretty much the same thing, that God is in everything, and yet they are centuries apart, some millenniums, and continents apart.</p></blockquote>
<p>1) They don&#8217;t all say pretty much the same thing, that God is in everything. Panentheism is very common, but hardly universal: try pre-rabbinical Judaism/Yahwehism or many traditions of Buddhism for example.<br />
2) Panentheism is easily explained as humankind&#8217;s perpetual need to comprehend the universe that surrounds it. Not only does panentheism attempt this, while obviously simplifying reality, it also allows the religionist to place him or her self at the center of the universe, often portrayed or replicated in his or her country (Palestine, Saudi Arabia), city (Jerusalem, Mecca), temple, or in the case of Christianity, soul.</p>
<p>I would suggest Mircea Eliade&#8217;s &#8220;The Sacred and the Profane&#8221; - you may find it enlightening.</p>
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		<title>By: LeoPardus</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19066</link>
		<dc:creator>LeoPardus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19066</guid>
		<description>exevangel:

Well, till next year then.  I put an email addy in a comment to your blog introduction. If you do try to reach me though, do it here first. I don't check that addy often at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>exevangel:</p>
<p>Well, till next year then.  I put an email addy in a comment to your blog introduction. If you do try to reach me though, do it here first. I don&#8217;t check that addy often at all.</p>
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		<title>By: exevangel</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19063</link>
		<dc:creator>exevangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19063</guid>
		<description>LeoPardus:

yes, of course, although I don't know that I'll be there in this calendar year, first half of 2009 is more likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LeoPardus:</p>
<p>yes, of course, although I don&#8217;t know that I&#8217;ll be there in this calendar year, first half of 2009 is more likely.</p>
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		<title>By: Cthulhu</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19061</link>
		<dc:creator>Cthulhu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19061</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t have to back up my ideas with science. All you need is plain common sense.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Then there is no value in conversing with you.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Currently, you have not explained yourself, I think you are full of BS.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I am not the person flinging BS particle physics/quantum mechanics non-facts around.  If you want to spout about science than back it up with facts.  Your 'opinion' means nothing in science...but apparently you do not spend much time worrying about facts - in your world I guess people like Einstein are mere fools.  Good day...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don’t have to back up my ideas with science. All you need is plain common sense.</p></blockquote>
<p>Then there is no value in conversing with you.</p>
<blockquote><p>Currently, you have not explained yourself, I think you are full of BS.</p></blockquote>
<p>I am not the person flinging BS particle physics/quantum mechanics non-facts around.  If you want to spout about science than back it up with facts.  Your &#8216;opinion&#8217; means nothing in science&#8230;but apparently you do not spend much time worrying about facts - in your world I guess people like Einstein are mere fools.  Good day&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19056</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19056</guid>
		<description>Does anyone know how I can post an article on this site? I really wanna know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know how I can post an article on this site? I really wanna know.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19055</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19055</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah, chew on this. If many religions and cultures believe that all life is created from spirit and/or believe in a God figure, then how come they all say pretty much the same thing, that God is in everything, and yet they are centuries apart, some millenniums,  and continents apart. They couldn't have come together to agree on that, and judging by religious intolerance, that would be near impossible. Some African tribes believe that spirit dwells within everything and so did Native Americans. Indian texts speak of God as encompassing everything and Christian and Muslim scriptures speak of God as living within everyone. How can they be so different, and yet alike?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, chew on this. If many religions and cultures believe that all life is created from spirit and/or believe in a God figure, then how come they all say pretty much the same thing, that God is in everything, and yet they are centuries apart, some millenniums,  and continents apart. They couldn&#8217;t have come together to agree on that, and judging by religious intolerance, that would be near impossible. Some African tribes believe that spirit dwells within everything and so did Native Americans. Indian texts speak of God as encompassing everything and Christian and Muslim scriptures speak of God as living within everyone. How can they be so different, and yet alike?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/04/24/the-thrill-of-discovery/#comment-19054</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=814#comment-19054</guid>
		<description>I don't have to back up my ideas with science. All you need is plain common sense. Think about it: If atoms are made up of subatomic particles, then those subatomic particles are made up of something, and that something is made up something. Everything needs to be made up of something in order to support itself. Since everything needs something else to support its structure, then that must go on for infinity. If you have any ideas that differ, then tell me why they are so right, cause apparently I don't any evidence to back up your claims, unless you tell me. Oh yeah, what makes other texts BS when you never really gave them a shot. It's like everyone can criticize something without trying it for themselves, that is, if doesn't harm anyone. Currently, you have not explained yourself, I think you are full of BS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have to back up my ideas with science. All you need is plain common sense. Think about it: If atoms are made up of subatomic particles, then those subatomic particles are made up of something, and that something is made up something. Everything needs to be made up of something in order to support itself. Since everything needs something else to support its structure, then that must go on for infinity. If you have any ideas that differ, then tell me why they are so right, cause apparently I don&#8217;t any evidence to back up your claims, unless you tell me. Oh yeah, what makes other texts BS when you never really gave them a shot. It&#8217;s like everyone can criticize something without trying it for themselves, that is, if doesn&#8217;t harm anyone. Currently, you have not explained yourself, I think you are full of BS.</p>
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