Comments on: Should we embrace moderate Christianity?

By: Patrick Neavin

Patrick Neavin — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:49:34 +0000

I think Rick Warren is the prime example of a moderate Christian. Although he opposes abortion and same sex marriage, he does tend to show grace to those who practice such things, not condoning such practices, but realizing that this is reality. God has to deal with these people on an individual basis anyway. I do not think that beating these people over the head with the Bible is necessarily the best solution, especially since half of everyone of these people claim to be Christians anyway (fancy that, Christian Abortion Doctors and Christian Gays, hmmm….). Yep, strangely, we worship God with these people everyday. Honestly, the second one of those people really does not bother me, so much as the first. I can live with the idea of gay Christians, as I know Clay Aiken and Ray Boltz are. However, to be a Christian abortionist sounds a lot like a contradiction in terms.

By: Improbable Capricorn

Improbable Capricorn — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:11:18 +0000

I agree with this articles premise that Fundie’s are a problem.
but I am beginning to a clearer picture of what is happening now in Churches with a Evangelical Message. I work for a sound company that primarily deals with installing Video Projectors and PA, Plasmas and LCDs and such. It has been a learning experience and I have some conclusions. The problem is that Christians such as fundies have made the official church system because of our history here in America. We all know the stories of abuse of power and such. But now the issue is more that these people are victims and they don’t even perceive it. Case and Point. FOX News. FOX news is now the defacto standard for the Religious Right, these people will condemn Abortion, but support war, they will state their position with absolutism, but their views are a relative subjective nonsensical display of emotion. I have people that I am very close too, that are trapped in the mindset of Political Religious attitudes and they can’t seem to grasp the idea of where politics begin and religion ends. These people are not bad people always. It is just a problem that seems pervasive in our society right now. Moderates and Liberals are considered to be from the Fundy side a type of Social Pariah. A mere heresy that they can simply avoid by being more “Tough on Sin” You may as non believers consider Moderates and Libs to be part of the problem. But it is really the people who don’t give a shit either way that makes this issue continue. And those people are not always even Moderate Christian or Liberal. Those are sometimes atheist and agnostics who just want to live their lives without religion interference. You know we should at least give FOX News is due, it knows how to brainwash the public religious sentiment into any position that it wants. I would not at all be surprised that if it became a fiscally conservative issue that abortion itself would not only be seen as “allowable” it could be seen as the ultimate good.

I am of the opinion that Moderates and Liberals should take on
the Religious Right. Atheist and Agnostics cannot make a dent into this type of mentality. But the Moderate (especially) definitely has a better shot than Penn Jillete, Sam Harris, and the Immoral Richard Dawkins.

By: pinkunicorn

pinkunicorn — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:55:02 +0000

All parts of a religion should be rejected, because you can’t just keep part of it alive. Imagine if we magically disappeared all the fundamentalists. Will fundamentalism disappear forever? Of course not; it will reappear quite soon. The so called “moderate believers” are the soil on which fundamentalism grows. Attacking only fundamentalist beliefs would be like trimming weeds instead of uprooting them; they will regrow.

My aim is to eradicate all religion, but as a gay man I have a particular disgust towards the abrahamic faiths – not that religions like Buddhism aren’t free of homophobia, but they have not caused anything akin to the millennial old prosecution of homosexuals the abrahamic faiths have caused.

Do I hate Christianity? Of course I do. In fact, I’m worried about gay men who do not hate religion; it’s a bad sign. I know that my kind of people will never be free as long as religion exists; and therefore, it I try to do whatever I can to wipe off this wickedness off the face of this planet.

The Bible is to gays what Mein Kampf is to Jews.

By: bipolar2

bipolar2 — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:34:47 +0000

** an atheist’s unapologetic apology **

“Theology is the subject without an object.”

Don’t forget big-4 monotheistic belief is not only optional; it’s really unfit for human consumption.

There is no supernatural realm. There are not two worlds – the *spiritual* one superordinate to nature – Eternity is a fiction, No god whatsoever exists.

Xianity, like its murderous near eastern brother islam, its mysoginst father judaism, and its hate-filled grandfather zoroastrianism, arose late in recorded history and it has been decaying at an increasing rate since 1600 CE.

Enough of this heresy born of Paul’s perverse twist on hellenistic judaism and overlaid with rites and symbols gleaned from the back alleys of slums in the eastern roman empire. Batman is more real than “Christ” ever was . . .

Enough xian intellectual nihilism and perversion of sexuality and hatred of woman and self-righteous revenge seeking. (1Cor1 1:end)

“God’s only excuse is that he does not exist.” — Stendahl

What a relief!

bipolar2
© 2008

By: Yurka

Yurka — Sat, 24 May 2008 19:53:25 +0000

writerdd, let me assure you - Jimmy Carter would indeed fit perfectly what you describe. His teachings are indeed far to the left and he believes nothing that would conflict with agnostic secular humanists. See here for a critique by Albert Mohler. But at least Jimmy Carter believes in God and Jesus, so he can claim to be a Christian. So though I disagree with him on just about all his theological positions, it's at least justifiable to talk of him as Christian. At least he's sincere. But read these 12 theses by Spong. Spong is a militant atheist, as you can see by the theses. Him calling himself a Christian is the only thing Christian about him! To steal an analogy from Todd Friel, it's like someone claiming to be a member of PETA and then you see them eating a juicy 16oz ribeye at Outbacks! So it's not a case of me judging - this is clear deceit on his part. He is seeking to destroy Christianity. Again I apologize for my strident tone - it seems you weren't aware of how off he was. I've never heard of Ballmer - seems to be similar to Barry Lynn and Jim Wallis (concerned with politicization), again - I can see calling them Christians, but Spong is just too far gone for that. He has no faith left.

By: writerdd

writerdd — Sat, 24 May 2008 18:31:43 +0000

Yurka, Spong was not my first choice as you see. I did select Jimmy Carter but then I wasn’t sure if he’s really moderate. I don’t know enough about his theology, although it’s obvious that he’s politically liberal and from watching his actions I am comfortable using him as an example after all.

Spong is on the far liberal end of the spectrum so I agree that he’s not a perfect example either. But it’s not my place to say he’s not a Christian.

I think Randall Balmer is probably a perfect example, but I’m not sure that enough people know who he is.

But I disagree with the rest of your post completely. I am all for infiltrating churches with moderates and liberals and pulling off a coup. I don’t really care if they still believe in God. I just want to get rid of the mean, hate filled, bigotry and the wrong headed reactionary politics.

Who am I to say that Spong is inauthentic? Who are you to say that? You are just proving my point that the media and fundamentalists have made it the status quo to think that extremists are the only authentic Christians. To that I say, bullsh*t.

By: Yurka

Yurka — Sat, 24 May 2008 16:52:34 +0000

writerdd, you do know what you are doing, right? And you should know that it is not honorable.

If you think an organization is wrong in it’s beliefs, be up front about it and argue against them. Show how they are wrong. Don’t send spies and moles into it who pretend to agree with it with a view to pulling off a coup.

This is exactly what liberal Christianity is – and it has had succeeded brilliantly in decimating Christianity in America – they don’t need your help.

I don’t mean to be offensive by not taking your words at face value. Honestly, it seems to me that when you cite ***Spong*** as an example of authentic Christianity, you must be using irony and admitting you just want to destroy it. Because of course Spong is an atheist. He repudiates Christianity with all the contempt and naturalism of a Dawkins or Hitchens. You do know that, right?

By: James McGrath

James McGrath — Tue, 20 May 2008 23:23:06 +0000

It is on my list of books I hope to read this summer – thanks for the recommendation (I’ll move it up the list!)

By: wirterdd

wirterdd — Tue, 20 May 2008 17:51:23 +0000

James, not sure I’ll have time to check it out, but I do understand. I don’t think people who have never been believers can really comprehend the language used by believers. And many believers have no clue that they use language in such a weird way that they sound completely crazy to most outsiders. We who are de-converted can become a type of ambassador to bridge the gap there.

An interesting book that might be worth checking out is Rapture Ready! by Daniel Radoth. It’s about Christian pop culture. I’ll be interviewing him soon and will post that here. He thinks we can use pop culture as a mode of communication to bridge the gap.

By: James McGrath

James McGrath — Tue, 20 May 2008 17:24:33 +0000

I've been having a conversation with Larry Moran (an atheist) about my own view (a progressive, symbolic Christianity) between my blog and his. Perhaps you'd like to join in the conversation - I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts on the subject, in view of what you posted here and some of the difficulties in communication that have arisen in the conversation so far.