de-conversion

38 Comments Add your own

• 1. Pantheophany  |  June 28, 2008 at 3:30 pm

  Regarding the 1/5 Atheists who believe in “God”: This comes down to whether you lump Pantheists in with Atheists or Theists. Note that the 90% figure refers to “God or universal spirit.” The differences between Jehovah/Allah/Odin versus Shaw’s Life Force or other Pantheistic “God” could not be greater (as I’m sure that adherents to the former would agree). This is not unlike asking “do you believe in horses or unicorns?” and taking the answer to mean wide belief in unicorns. In this case, Christians are reading this further to suggest the respondents believe in their specific, purple unicorn, not even unicorns in general. “God” is a very elastic term.

  American society may still be quite spiritual, but it is hardly Christian in any way that Evangelicals would define it. “Atheists” who believe in a universal spirit are not being inconsistent, they just weren’t offered the word “pantheist” as an option, and pantheism is more compatible with atheism than with deism.

• 2. Stephen P  |  June 28, 2008 at 4:16 pm

  ‘Pantheist’ may not have been an option, but ‘secular unaffiliated’ and ‘religious unaffiliated’ were available.

  I’m not sure what this shows – my best guess is that many people are actually thoroughly confused about their religious beliefs. Either that, or more people than I suspected adopt a mischievous approach to answering surveys. Maybe ‘followers of Loki’ should be an option on future surveys.

• 3. Walking Away  |  June 28, 2008 at 7:15 pm

  Ummm, how can an atheist believe in God? Isn’t that a contradiction based on the definition of being atheist?

• 4. The de-Convert  |  June 28, 2008 at 8:03 pm

  There may be agnostic former Christians who believe themselves to be atheists because of their choice not to believe in God.

• 5. panthophany  |  June 28, 2008 at 8:42 pm

  There may be agnostic former Christians who believe themselves to be atheists because of their choice not to believe in God.

  Or a misunderstanding between “non-Christian theist” and “atheist.” In my study of the poll, I think it’s likely that most people do not actually know what they believe, do not know what their claimed groups believe, and commonly hold contradictory beliefs.

  This is not surprising to anyone who has talked with many people about their beliefs. In my days as a Creationist, I found that most people who claim belief in Evolution actually had no idea what modern Evolutionary Biology says (certainly made my arguments easier at the time) and have lots of contradictory beliefs about it (that it’s compatible with a literal Genesis for instance). I’m in no way saying that science is a religion, I’m just saying that belief is a funny thing, and contradictory belief is very common among those who have not carefully considered them.

• 6. Lottie  |  June 28, 2008 at 10:47 pm

  Ummm, how can an atheist believe in God? Isn’t that a contradiction based on the definition of being atheist?

  Yes. Someone who believes in God is not, by definition, an atheist.

  This makes as much sense as saying 21% of dwarfs are six feet tall. Then they’re not dwarfs, are they?

• 7. andrealudwig  |  June 28, 2008 at 11:09 pm

  Love that last comment by Lottie. Makes me laugh.
  I read your welcome info and agree that we should evalutate all religions “critically,” or with intelligent questions. I also wanted to note that no true Christian will ever “de-convert,” as you call it, because once the Holy Spirit indwells a person, He does not leave. Once saved, always saved. There are many false religions, and those you can – and should! – walk away from.

• 8. andrealudwig  |  June 28, 2008 at 11:12 pm

  I also just noticed your “de-converison wager,” and I would like to assert that acts of love, kindness, compassion, and mercy are powerless to get you into heaven. See my page entitled “How to Get to Heaven” on http://www.phenomenaltruths.wordpress.com.

• 9. Obi  |  June 28, 2008 at 11:31 pm

  We’ve heard it all before, Andrea, but thanks for your concern. I’ll be praying for you so that the Invisible Pink Unicorn can intervene in your life and show you Her love.

• 10. Ubi Dubium  |  June 28, 2008 at 11:31 pm

  andrealudwig-

  I’m not interested in getting into heaven. (It sounds really boring, anyway.) I think that living with love, kindness, compassion, and mercy is the right thing to do, and I don’t need the fear of eternal torment to make me do that. If your heaven existed (and I don’t think it does), it would be full of deeply religious people, but none of my friends, or anyone I would find interesting. Bleah.

• 11. HeIsSailing  |  June 28, 2008 at 11:38 pm

  Andrea,
  What your pastor told you about atheists is true. We are all trying to get into Heaven without God’s help. Thanks for your help.

• 12. The de-Convert  |  June 28, 2008 at 11:40 pm

  Ubi,

  I would say it doesn’t or we would have discovered it with modern technology. Remember YHWH was concerned that man would build a tower to reach heaven so he confused their languages (see this post for more info).

  Paul

• 13. Ubi Dubium  |  June 28, 2008 at 11:41 pm

  Back to the topic at hand.

  I think what we are seeing on this graph is not telling us that some atheists actually believe in god. I can accept that some people who describe themselves as not believing in “god” have not ruled out that there might be some impersonal force present in the universe. But for that red bar showing “atheists who believe in god”, I think we are actually seeing a combination of:
  1. People not intelligent enough to mark their answers correctly,
  2. People who misunderstood the original question, and
  3. People who like to give random answers on polls just to mess things up.
  In other words – I think this percentage defines the margin of error on this poll.

• 14. Ubi Dubium  |  June 28, 2008 at 11:44 pm

  The de-Convert-

  Except for the Pastafarian heaven! That one’s OK, and not mentioned in the bible as something god was worried about. An eternity of Beer, strippers, and no Fundies! I can get behind that one.

• 15. Chicken Girl  |  June 29, 2008 at 12:57 am

  In other news, 21% of bachelors are married.

• 16. orDover  |  June 29, 2008 at 1:29 am

  What is really interesting is that the +-8% represented in red believe in a personal god, so that kind of rules out agnostics, pantheists, and deists.

  I really wonder what the exact questions asked were. I think it’s kind of weird that they can’t be readily found. The Gallup polls always provide them.

  It’s also really interesting that the options were “Personal God,” “Impersonal Force,” and “Other/Don’t Know.” Where is the “There is no god” option? Sure, those people could answer “Other/Don’t Know” but that doesn’t really reflect their real views.

  Am I the only one who finds this whole thing a little fishy?

• 17. orDover  |  June 29, 2008 at 1:34 am

  After looking close, I see that those who said they don’t believe in god were not included in the 21%, so ignore that question.

• 18. TheNerd  |  June 29, 2008 at 2:07 am

  I think they should re-write the questions for that poll and re-collect the data.

• 19. LeoPardus  |  June 29, 2008 at 2:29 am

  The poll questions are available easily. Just to to the link I put in post #2 and download the full report. The questions are all at the end of the report, along with a long description of the survey methodology.

• 20. The de-Convert  |  June 29, 2008 at 8:16 am

  ChickenGirl,

  In other news, 21% of bachelors are married.

  Ironically, this is probably true

  Paul

• 21. Skep  |  June 29, 2008 at 8:17 am

  As Mark Twain put it, Heaven for the Climate, Hell for the Companionship.

  So no thanks Andrea

• 22. Tautology of the Skeptical Sinner  |  June 29, 2008 at 8:38 am

  21% of Atheists believe in god??…

  Found this over at De-conversion the original survey is here http://religions.pewforum.org/reports and coverage by  The Dallas Morning News
  This is not a puzzling survey result.
  As we all know, Atheists tend to be smart asses. And Survey takers tend…

• 23. Twazzi  |  June 29, 2008 at 1:46 pm

  Did Ben Stein have part in this poll?

• 24. dragonmage06  |  June 29, 2008 at 6:48 pm

  I put my money on the “this poll is seriously messed up” option. I agree with orDover, where’s the “there is no God” option? Or the Buddhist option for that matter?

• 25. Walking Away  |  June 30, 2008 at 2:48 am

  Chicken Girl – GOOD ONE! LOL. I need a laugh.

  I am so glad I found this place. Thank God for all you people

• 26. SnugglyBuffalo  |  June 30, 2008 at 3:08 pm

  Indeed, I have found this blog to be quite a godsend.

• 27. How To Spot A Psychopath :: Steady as she goes, toward the cliff :: October :: 2008  |  October 9, 2008 at 11:35 pm

  [...] seats more than a thousand people, but the USA is a country where 21% of the atheists apparently believe in God, so that probably wouldn’t work too [...]

• 28. You’re Doing It Wrong: Statistics « Nullius in Verba  |  October 10, 2008 at 1:46 am

  [...] Apparently, 21% of Atheists surveyed believe in God. [...]

• 29. eternal0void  |  November 18, 2008 at 12:47 pm

  I think that what is going on with the concept of “21% of atheists believe in a God” is that some folks just came off the religious bandwagon and aren’t quite sure what to call themselves, so they call themselves “unbelievers” because they no longer believe in the religion in which they were raised.

  However, an “unbeliever” isn’t necessarily the same thing as an atheist. Someone who is disenchanted with Abrahamic religion and hasn’t yet had the opportunity to discover a non-Abrahamic religion may call themselves an “unbeliever” (as this is what their old religion called people like them), yet still want to believe in a God. This is in contrast to an atheist, who has no desire to believe in a God. Interviewers may lump the “want to believe in a God” unbelievers in with the “have no desire to believe in a God” atheists, and from this shoddy questioning we get shoddy results.

• 30. How To Spot A Psychopath :: 21% of US squares triangular, survey finds :: November :: 2008  |  November 30, 2008 at 2:55 am

  [...] as I’ve previously mentioned, the USA appears to be a country in which 21% of the atheists believe in God, it’s not surprising that – to pick one example from the Barna survey – 64% of Americans (or [...]

• 31. Apathy Sketchpad » Blog Archive » If It’s There, I’ll Give You The Money Myself.  |  December 14, 2008 at 6:52 pm

  [...] the statement “I do not celebrate Christmas as a religious festival”. I am reminded of the survey that said 21% of American atheists believe in a god. These surveys are nonsense, [...]

• 32. GBM  |  December 15, 2008 at 11:32 am

  I may be revealing my ignorance here but doesn’t ‘atheism’ mean ‘not-theism?’ as in the rejection of an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god who intervenes in human affairs? As is the catholics, protestants, jews, muslims, etc who thought that god was not a personal god but an impersonal force are also atheists? lol. what a horrible survey

• 33. GBM  |  December 15, 2008 at 11:32 am

  I may be revealing my ignorance here but doesn’t ‘atheism’ mean ‘not-theism?’ as in the rejection of an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god who intervenes in human affairs? So the catholics, protestants, jews, muslims, etc who thought that god was not a personal god but an impersonal force are also atheists? lol. what a horrible survey

• 34. James  |  April 11, 2009 at 4:16 pm

  After reading comment #6, my mind wandered to LOTR and I thought of “Gimli’s Revenge!”

  My other thought was if the survey has a typo for “atheist”, which instead read “a theist”. Or possibly they allowed people to check more than one box, because their faith was uncertain.

• 35. brandon grissom  |  April 13, 2009 at 2:27 pm

  Ok i want to put this out there.
  Just to say “The Atheist” dont believe in God, they have no proof that he is not real.
  Lets say I dont believe in gravity doesn’t mean i can go jump off a building and float around.
  God is real.

• 36. BigHouse  |  April 13, 2009 at 5:10 pm

  Lets say I dont believe in gravity doesn’t mean i can go jump off a building and float around.
  God is real.

  Ok, brandon, I’ll bite. If God is gravity, what test is analgous to your jumping off a building?

• 37. LeoPardus  |  April 13, 2009 at 6:59 pm

  I believe Brandon is real. A real sad example of the kind of product put out by our educational systems.

• 38. intellectuallyfulfilledatheist  |  December 21, 2009 at 3:46 pm

  The graphic on this blog is entirely dishonest. I followed the link provided to the study and downloaded the full 210 page pdf file of the full report. The question that this graphic is supposed to represent is found on page 167 of the report. Atheists aren’t mentioned at all, instead you see “unaffiliated”, which most likely includes atheists but also other religious people who don’t affiliate themselves with any of the denominations that they were presented with by the survey. The person who made the graphic didn’t even get the numbers right.

Trackback this post  |  Subscribe to the comments via RSS Feed