Anywaysss, I figure you have these uppity big religions coming up from the desert in the middle east, which are by and large very similar and they get pushed through as a succesion of Kings, Emperors and Princes percolate their systems of power northwards and they hit the big forests of Northern Europe. A completely different landscape and way of living with all its tree worship, green men and holy bears. I mean they were from completey different worlds, people up north wouldn’t have had a clue what Lion looked like, much less concieve of many of the practices talked about in the bible. Also they would have spoken in Latin and only the rich elites would have understood that so for many people it was just beyond em, and they probably would have stuck to their original systems of belief because it made more sense to them. fast forward a few hundred years and this desert religion has now changed and taken on many of these local folkoric beliefs and subsumed them as inherently christian. Anyway, the point I might as well make is if you want to Proselytise succesfully you have to start appropriating the local important systems and structures. Secularisation of schools and hospitals and other important aspects of public life meant the decline of religion in Europe. This is where the propagation of atheism is succesful, all you have to do is keep religion away from these places and leave people free to make up their own irrational but pragmatic minds, and Bingo! You will never need to formulate an athiestic version of witnessing or testifying. ok sorry for the length but I’m bored at home with a busted ankle and Wimbledon sucks green felty balls…

‘I do agree that the fact that Europeans’ populations are declining as Muslims immigrate there has potentially devastating consequences for their cultures’

I’m afraid thats a poor understanding of ‘Culture’. It does not work that way. Its not a static system of classification, if anything you could say that ‘Islamic’ culture and ‘European’ culture could not easily be seperated at many points throughout history (both recent and ancient) especially considering the Meditteranean and Baltic areas. There are quite strong similarities between both Christian and Islamic doctrines that have had a pervasive effect on institutional laws, the structure of social organisation and the value of certain ideologies. You can see this in the organisation of markets, schools, hospitals, architecture and on a more directly religious vein; shared saints, holy sites, and funny ideas about what is and isn’t taboo regarding the physical body.

In fact if it wasn’t for Islamic scholars in Spain during the 9th -15th centuries it is doubtful that we would have ever had a translation of Aristotle, Plato, amongst other important enlightenment influencing philosophers, cos it certainly wasn’t happening intellectually in Northern Europe at that time.

In any event If you are from Northern Europe and you’re a bit edgy about a supposed ‘Islamic Invasion’, bear in mind any hostility is far more likely to come from a native born ‘fanatic’, who is far more likely to originally be a petty criminal, who has joined an islamic based gang in prison and still carries out criminal activities despite the fact that this goes against the doctrines of his religion. And this specific problem has its roots based in poverty and organised crime more than anything else. In other words, don’t believe the hype. and btw I’ve never been to a ‘Islamic’ no go area in London, Bradford or Birmingham. A regards Bestiality in Sweden, well, those Reindeer sure do have a seXXXy walk, and such long and beautiful eyelashes! Oooohhh Rudddollpphh, you naughty boy! ;P

Basically, I disagree with the idea that atheism is at the root of European’s low birth rates. And given how much corruption can be found in Christianity itself, I strongly doubt the problems faced in the Netherlands and Sweden that you mention would not have arisen had the nations remained Christian.

So It doesn’t seem worth it. If only such a small segment cooperates, the effects if any will barely be discernible, so I’d think it better to enjoy yourself now.

I’ll refrain from delving into the “everybody else is doing it” argument here. If you can’t see the danger of such an attitude, I don’t think anything I can say will change it. I am amused that you seem to equate “enjoying yourself” with having more kids (though maybe you meant that phrase in a more general context with regard to controlling your behavior). Given that humanity’s birth rates go down when they can help it, it seems like the overwhelming opinion is that people enjoy themselves more when they have fewer kids.

#28,”what the heck does having more kids have to do with Christianity?” heh – touche. I believe Augustine even wanted people to have no children, in order to hasten the second coming. St. Paul seems neutral on the matter (1 Co addresses the issue I think). But I didn’t mean that not having children was un Christian. I just meant that it seems that Europeans were not having children for the wrong reasons. It would be a shame for a great civilization to be extinguished for those reasons.

#29, No I’ve never been to Europe, I don’t know any Europeans, but one can see the trends there- you don’t need to know anyone personally to see these are harmful trends. What about the Dutch pedophiles trying to form their own political party? What about the fact that bestiality is on the rise in Sweden?
Why do the British allow Muslim “No Go” areas in London? It’s as if they’ve *already* ceded territory to militant muslims? How can we not be alarmed at what these militants are doing in Europe?

#30, it’s not hate, it’s occasionally letting the world situation get me down, which admittedly is wrong. “Do not grieve as one who has no hope”.

*The Nerd resists pointing the “true Scotsman” finger.*