What was especially revealing was the video they showed on how to evangelize. It specifically pointed out which types of people to target, and which not to. It should come as no surprise that all of us deconverts are in the latter category. The firm specifically said to avoid people who ask hard questions, to not waste time talking to them. Right then and there I knew that I was wasting my time and that my stay in the LCMS would not be a happy one and could only come at a price I was no longer willing to pay. Manipulation has never been my game; I have always felt that if you had to use arm-twisting or any kind of deceit to sell your product or win your case, then it probably wasn’t very good to begin with. I don’t think would-be evangelizers realize or even care that by using manipulation, pressure and outright deceit, they are advertising that Christianity is indeed unable to stand on its own merits and therefore isn’t worthy of the consideration they would like the rest of us to give it.

the longer we believe the more evidence we get from God.

Precisely the opposite of what we all found. But it’s funny that you start with this statement and then go on to tell us how you don’t get proof from God.

At any rate, the rest of your post is just a bunch of assertions, which you think are true. They aren’t true. There. Now I’ve made an assertion. And as long as no proof/evidence is needed, we are at a complete impasse.

If you know any of the Bible you also know that satan is real and he is the father of lies, and the author of the subtle attack on every believer; doubt discouragement and disbelief…don’t give in.

When he/she reads Hebrews 6:4-6 it brings great fear to the heart!! Why? Because they TRULY BELIEVE the Bible.

I would argue that, if the only reason you believe is because you’re afraid of what would happen if you did not, then that is not genuine faith.

Employing fear as a means of preventing “apostasy” is a sign of megalomania, not compassion. Being afraid of something is not the same thing as actually believing in it.

The thought has struck me several times when reading those verses in Hebrews if they in a sense are like a safety harness to a true Christian. If a true Christian wanders so far that he is getting close to apostasizing, he knows it. When he/she reads Hebrews 6:4-6 it brings great fear to the heart!! Why? Because they TRULY BELIEVE the Bible. That verse CAUSES the “fear of falling” that will drive the true believer back. It is a literal safety harness–something that drives the true believer back to the truth.

A person who doesn’t really believe can GET PAST those verses. Why? They DON’T really believe the Bible, therefore they continue on their path to apostasy. I personally, in the past, strayed so far that I thought I had committed the Unpardonable sin. Those verses in Hebrews filled me with so much fear I couldn’t even sleep. But you know what? They eventually led me back to a place where I saw how stupid I was being in running from God. Heb. 6:4-6 is like barbed wire to the true Christian who is wandering. But to the person who only professes faith rather than possessing it, the verses mean little more than anything else in the Bible–and they continue until their apostasy is complete.

I think this man’s interpretation is a very good one. It has helped me to far better understand those verses, and why God put them there in Hebrews.

Reading that article, I’m not sure what to make of this line, regarding the third option (that those verses serve as a warning that is always effective):

“It is legitimate to introduce the possibility of something that will not happen to motivate one to avoid it.”

Does that strike anyone else as absolutely absurd? If it can’t happen anyway, why motivate anyone to avoid it?

Whereas a “professor of faith but not a possessor of faith” will be ABLE to get past the verses and actually apostasize. I find this to be fascinating. I now de-cons do not like to be told they “never really believed”—-you heard that all before—-but this article gives a bit of a different perspective than I have heard before, and I found it very interesting.

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue49.htm

http://christplaysnz.blogspot.com/2008/08/manipulation-and-evangelism.html

SilentJ – Yes, I agree, maybes as a whole whether good or bad has a massive impact. There is no way around it, it has potential to be either really good, really bad, or no effect at all. The majority of scientific hypothesis’s start out as a maybe. But I understand your main point, it is the unverifiable maybe’s that can have a big impact in distorting reality, nevertheless, not all maybes are going to fit under the scope of science. Heck, Jar Theory is a maybe that is accepted as a possibility by sum and too me that theory is really out there!!!

Just having faith in something, doesnt mean you throw all science out the window. I truly believe you can have both. Now Im not talking about religion or any doctrinal based idea, I am talking about a “belief” in some kind of driving force to the universe as we see it. Science seems to point to some health benefits for prayer and meditation, so I guess there are some tangible perks to it.