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	<title>Comments on: Pan&#8217;s Labyrinth</title>
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	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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		<title>By: Cedric Bruin</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-53619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cedric Bruin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 07:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-53619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I originally left a comment I clicked the -Notify me when new comments are added- checkbox and now each time a comment is added I get four emails with the same comment. Is there any way you can remove me from that service? Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I originally left a comment I clicked the -Notify me when new comments are added- checkbox and now each time a comment is added I get four emails with the same comment. Is there any way you can remove me from that service? Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Orlaith NicAnBheatha</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-52282</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Orlaith NicAnBheatha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2011 16:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-52282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the film goes a lot deeper were symbolism is concerned.  yes there is a lot to do with religion, satan, temptation etc but there is also reference to fairytales we are familiar with today, little red riding hood (the captain can be portrayed as the &quot;Big Bad wolf&quot;, Ofelia little red). also the clothing she wears when completing the 1st task - Alice in wonderland and the entrance through the tree relates to wonderland, the tree is in the shape of horns (religion again) but could also be viewed as the shape of a womb in which Ofelia is reborn when she enters it.  the wizard of Oz in the final scene with her red shoes (there&#039;s no place like home and she has just been reunited with her parents).  robin hood steal frim the rich and give to the poor (the rebels part in the film). There is quite a bit of reference to the watch, notice how the background of the captains room is the shape of the inside of a clock.  
Reference to Hitler and the amount of Jews that were killed, the scene with the pale man there is a pile of kids shoes relating to this.
in my opinion it makes the film a lot more interesting to study the symbolism in depth.  watch it again with these symbolic features in mind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the film goes a lot deeper were symbolism is concerned.  yes there is a lot to do with religion, satan, temptation etc but there is also reference to fairytales we are familiar with today, little red riding hood (the captain can be portrayed as the &#8220;Big Bad wolf&#8221;, Ofelia little red). also the clothing she wears when completing the 1st task &#8211; Alice in wonderland and the entrance through the tree relates to wonderland, the tree is in the shape of horns (religion again) but could also be viewed as the shape of a womb in which Ofelia is reborn when she enters it.  the wizard of Oz in the final scene with her red shoes (there&#8217;s no place like home and she has just been reunited with her parents).  robin hood steal frim the rich and give to the poor (the rebels part in the film). There is quite a bit of reference to the watch, notice how the background of the captains room is the shape of the inside of a clock.<br />
Reference to Hitler and the amount of Jews that were killed, the scene with the pale man there is a pile of kids shoes relating to this.<br />
in my opinion it makes the film a lot more interesting to study the symbolism in depth.  watch it again with these symbolic features in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-29748</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-29748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Neither would I, but many people do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither would I, but many people do.</p>
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		<title>By: Simen</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-29747</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-29747</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Obviously, a world of fiction doesn&#039;t necessarily work like the real world. I don&#039;t know why anyone would think otherwise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously, a world of fiction doesn&#8217;t necessarily work like the real world. I don&#8217;t know why anyone would think otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-29746</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-29746</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t worry blueollie, I don&#039;t think that pixies cause my car trouble. Though, it is important to say that if the causes of car damage were on the cutting edge of human knowledge, it would be foolish for us to dismiss the possibility that pixies caused the damage solely through logic and reasoning. Many scientific blunders were made in the past by very intelligent and rational people because of the overuse of their accumulated knowledge when facing a new problem or issue. 

Back to Pan&#039;s Labyrinth - it is precisely because this is a movie that my original point is still valid. I think I just didn&#039;t communicate effectively, and that is why blueollie thought I was saying more than I was. The universe presented in a movie is not restricted to the same rules that govern our universe, and as such, you can watch Pan&#039;s Labyrinth without immediately imposing our paradigm (or our collective set of heuristics) on the story. 

In some cases this is easy. The movie Star Wars is so far removed from our reality, that its easy to say that &quot;the force&quot; exists in that universe. Pan&#039;s Labyrinth on the other hand, has so much in common with our universe that it is easy to interpret it as our universe. My comment was simply the observation that a lot of people do this, and did this, with this movie very quickly. When we do this, I almost feel that we lose something. While we cannot hold onto all of our childhood beliefs, we can still hold on to the few things that can still be magical to us, like movies or storytelling in general. 

So, in my interpretation of the movie, I hold that Ofelia&#039;s experiences could have been psychological in nature, or she really could have been the princess of the underworld. There is simply not enough information to conclusively decide one way or another.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry blueollie, I don&#8217;t think that pixies cause my car trouble. Though, it is important to say that if the causes of car damage were on the cutting edge of human knowledge, it would be foolish for us to dismiss the possibility that pixies caused the damage solely through logic and reasoning. Many scientific blunders were made in the past by very intelligent and rational people because of the overuse of their accumulated knowledge when facing a new problem or issue. </p>
<p>Back to Pan&#8217;s Labyrinth &#8211; it is precisely because this is a movie that my original point is still valid. I think I just didn&#8217;t communicate effectively, and that is why blueollie thought I was saying more than I was. The universe presented in a movie is not restricted to the same rules that govern our universe, and as such, you can watch Pan&#8217;s Labyrinth without immediately imposing our paradigm (or our collective set of heuristics) on the story. </p>
<p>In some cases this is easy. The movie Star Wars is so far removed from our reality, that its easy to say that &#8220;the force&#8221; exists in that universe. Pan&#8217;s Labyrinth on the other hand, has so much in common with our universe that it is easy to interpret it as our universe. My comment was simply the observation that a lot of people do this, and did this, with this movie very quickly. When we do this, I almost feel that we lose something. While we cannot hold onto all of our childhood beliefs, we can still hold on to the few things that can still be magical to us, like movies or storytelling in general. </p>
<p>So, in my interpretation of the movie, I hold that Ofelia&#8217;s experiences could have been psychological in nature, or she really could have been the princess of the underworld. There is simply not enough information to conclusively decide one way or another.</p>
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		<title>By: Simen</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-29734</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 23:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-29734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Adam is right, but the reason is that we evolved to rationalize, and the reason we evolved to rationalize is that most of the time, this heuristic works. Most of the time, sensory data that contradict our worldview is wrong -- most of the time, there is an explanation for our experience that doesn&#039;t involve miracles and magic and turning the world on its head.

That said, I&#039;m very fond of metaphorical magic (seeing the magic in the everyday, fantastic fiction, and stage magic). I just don&#039;t believe any of it is really above and beyond the natural. It&#039;s just natural phenomena and the power of suggestion. (Horror movies can horrify even those who don&#039;t believe in ghosts etc.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam is right, but the reason is that we evolved to rationalize, and the reason we evolved to rationalize is that most of the time, this heuristic works. Most of the time, sensory data that contradict our worldview is wrong &#8212; most of the time, there is an explanation for our experience that doesn&#8217;t involve miracles and magic and turning the world on its head.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;m very fond of metaphorical magic (seeing the magic in the everyday, fantastic fiction, and stage magic). I just don&#8217;t believe any of it is really above and beyond the natural. It&#8217;s just natural phenomena and the power of suggestion. (Horror movies can horrify even those who don&#8217;t believe in ghosts etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: blueollie</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-29732</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blueollie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-29732</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;When presented with any information that we find that contradicts our current understanding of reality, we often quickly taken effort to neutralize the confusion by rationalizing what we see into what still fits comfortably into our paradigm.&quot;

Hmmm, how about finding the best available explanation that fits with reality?

You know when our cars malfunction, we could assume that pixies are doing it.  When we get sick, we can blame evil spirits. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When presented with any information that we find that contradicts our current understanding of reality, we often quickly taken effort to neutralize the confusion by rationalizing what we see into what still fits comfortably into our paradigm.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmmm, how about finding the best available explanation that fits with reality?</p>
<p>You know when our cars malfunction, we could assume that pixies are doing it.  When we get sick, we can blame evil spirits. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-29726</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 08:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-29726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find it interesting that several of the comments explain the magic to be not more than psychological fantasy. 

&quot;Rationalism has won over irrational superstition, and in so doing, has killed Ofelia’s mother.&quot;

When presented with any information that we find that contradicts our current understanding of reality, we often quickly taken effort to neutralize the confusion by rationalizing what we see into what still fits comfortably into our paradigm. 

This isn&#039;t to say that I&#039;m saying this is anything more than a movie, but it also seems as though many are quick to dispel any fantasy in their own mind. Some see a magic trick and immediately want to know how it is done, while others see the same and, despite knowing it is an illusion, do not seek out an answer. Perhaps they are the only ones that truly experience the &quot;magic&quot;. Or perhaps not. I&#039;d like to think that they do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that several of the comments explain the magic to be not more than psychological fantasy. </p>
<p>&#8220;Rationalism has won over irrational superstition, and in so doing, has killed Ofelia’s mother.&#8221;</p>
<p>When presented with any information that we find that contradicts our current understanding of reality, we often quickly taken effort to neutralize the confusion by rationalizing what we see into what still fits comfortably into our paradigm. </p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t to say that I&#8217;m saying this is anything more than a movie, but it also seems as though many are quick to dispel any fantasy in their own mind. Some see a magic trick and immediately want to know how it is done, while others see the same and, despite knowing it is an illusion, do not seek out an answer. Perhaps they are the only ones that truly experience the &#8220;magic&#8221;. Or perhaps not. I&#8217;d like to think that they do.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-25151</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-25151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i loved this movie and your review was spot on. there are so many ways you can take this movie and that&#039;s what makes it great... 

&quot;Where Narnia’s religious themes are obvious and intruding, Pan’s Labyrinth, in my opinion, does not stoop to this level. The moral and religious symbolism is there and integral to the whole yet doesn’t distract from the rest of it, &quot;

you betcha.. when a movie hits you over the head with what you&#039;re supposed to take from it, i dislike it as it doesn&#039;t respect the view/reader. RAWK!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i loved this movie and your review was spot on. there are so many ways you can take this movie and that&#8217;s what makes it great&#8230; </p>
<p>&#8220;Where Narnia’s religious themes are obvious and intruding, Pan’s Labyrinth, in my opinion, does not stoop to this level. The moral and religious symbolism is there and integral to the whole yet doesn’t distract from the rest of it, &#8221;</p>
<p>you betcha.. when a movie hits you over the head with what you&#8217;re supposed to take from it, i dislike it as it doesn&#8217;t respect the view/reader. RAWK!</p>
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		<title>By: furious buddha</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/07/pans-labyrinth/#comment-25099</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[furious buddha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=1315#comment-25099</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent analysis. I hope you don&#039;t mind, but I added you to my blogroll.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent analysis. I hope you don&#8217;t mind, but I added you to my blogroll.</p>
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