But it’s a problem when people harm each other because they take these fairy tales too seriously.

Praying instead of sending to hospital. Shutting down scientific enquiry into things that would be beneficial to humankind. Violent conflicts based on a difference of opinion as to which fairy tales are the best. Discriminating against gay people because of ancient texts. Children living in fear of divine retribution.

These things have to be vigorously challenged now. It’ll balance out once the worst excesses of religiosity are behind us.

For me, part of the beauty of being the atheist is I don’t have to do or say or believe anything I don’t want to. I don’t have to make fun of believers, or laugh at people who want spirituality. Even though I personally find religions unnecessary, it doesn’t mean I go around making fun of people who ARE religious – which is every other person in my immediate family.

If you don’t like some of the bad things associated with atheism, yet still have atheistic beliefs, be the kind of atheist you want to see. Atheism and atheists subscribe to no dogma or rule, so you may still be antheist and find your own path.

listen, everyone should be heard, and it definitely works for my liberal agenda that liberal atheists speak their mind and fight religious hypocrisy (not to be confused with fighting religion, which is DEFINITELY not an agenda I have.)

I can deduce from your comment that what we’re actually discussing is the right method to separate church and state, and not whether or not atheists should push atheism.

That said, the evangelical quest to make America into a theocracy is a good example for a situation where every free-loving individual, regardless of faith and political affiliation, should give a hand to stopping the evangelicals. This is easily portrayed as a “religion vs. non-religion” battle, but it’s most definitely. It’s a battle between reason and democracy and insanity and servitude.

Americans United, it seems, are a good example of peace-loving people with various beliefs fighting for a common goal. THAT is an organization I’m willing to fight for.

I say, when it comes to liberal values, leave religion as a whole out of it.

I agree. That’s my goal too. But how do we achieve that? If the evangelicals insist on pushing religion into everything, and nobody is pushing back against them, we will continue to live in a country where politics is pervaded with religion.

I like the approach of Americans United, which is staffed by both atheists and believers, and who work very hard to oppose the efforts of the religious right to push their beliefs into everything. But I also think it doesn’t hurt for Atheists to be more visible, to speak up, and to demonstrate that those negative stereotypes are completely untrue.

I say, when it comes to liberal values, leave religion as a whole out of it. Yes, there IS a correlation between religiosity and the anti-democratic inanity displayed by some conservative politicians, but the converse shouldn’t be true, as well. I leave my lack of faith out of my politics in the same way that fundamentalists shouldn’t mix their zeal with politics.

Racism did not really begin to deline in our country (US) until the African Americans began to speak up and be heard. When I was a child, it was OK for our leaders to be publicly racist, but not any more. Racism may not be gone, but it is no longer socially acceptable. It’s took years of speaking out, demanding fairness, and slowly changing attitudes to bring that about.

But conservative politicians, and other leaders, can say that the 20% of the population who are non-believers are “unpatriotic evildoers” and they get away with it. That needs to stop, and it’s not going to stop until we speak up for ourselves.

And, on the third hand, if this so-called “movement” is designed to teach and instruct the world about secular values and rational thought, then it’s pure plagiarism and, in fact, doesn’t even require anyone to be atheistic or even irreligious. Secular values are independent of religious beliefs.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m an atheist and I’m very excited about, say, Richard Dawkins’ and James Randi’s educational programs. They do a lot to teach the world about skepticism and science. That’s FINE. But what’s the point in gathering up with people who share what you lack?

I don’t get it.

I think Dawkins put it well: trying to organize atheists is like herding cats. And also, the stereotypes you were introduced to are quite disturbing, I mean, who says that evil is a religious problem? People can be evil regardless of their religion, and the same goes for being spiritual.

Are you really a reverend?

I am always stunned at the audacity intrinsic to the evangelical mindset. It really is a desire for everyone to believe like *me*. Which, as the Rev’s posts make painfully obvious, results in an a priori reading of everything into the unfathomably narrow channels of your a priori faith. And, as the rest of this thread shows, the end result is a conversational din, all because the only purpose for which the Rev enters into any conversation is to challenge the beliefs of others, to figure out why they don’t think like him, and then ultimately to make sure they understand how he sees the world.

Did I get that right? I mean, go figure: a reverend trying to keep his job. You’re just a glorified salesman (which isn’t saying much).

Anybody want to talk about the Theology of Liberation . . . about putting Jesus back on the Left where he belongs?