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	<title>Comments on: At what point am I no longer a Christian?</title>
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	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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		<title>By: SnugglyBuffalo</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-29692</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SnugglyBuffalo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-29692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amanda has convinced me of miracles, as she has resurrected this thread from the dead!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amanda has convinced me of miracles, as she has resurrected this thread from the dead!</p>
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		<title>By: orDover</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-29682</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[orDover]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-29682</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, and Quester, no. No, they don&#039;t have any other ideas. They never do. It&#039;s either: a) talk to God, pray to him and work it out, or b) read the Bible. They fail to realize that doing those exact things is what cause us to de-convert in the first place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and Quester, no. No, they don&#8217;t have any other ideas. They never do. It&#8217;s either: a) talk to God, pray to him and work it out, or b) read the Bible. They fail to realize that doing those exact things is what cause us to de-convert in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: orDover</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-29681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[orDover]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-29681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just really can&#039;t see the sense in a person telling another person who is doubting to existence of a particular being to just talk to that being about it. If they could just talk to the questionable being, then they wouldn&#039;t be doubting its existence in the first place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just really can&#8217;t see the sense in a person telling another person who is doubting to existence of a particular being to just talk to that being about it. If they could just talk to the questionable being, then they wouldn&#8217;t be doubting its existence in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Quester</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-29679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-29679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems that God&#039;s phone is out of service, or maybe I just have the wrong number (big practical joker, that deity). Either way, I can talk my head off, but there is no response. Got another idea?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that God&#8217;s phone is out of service, or maybe I just have the wrong number (big practical joker, that deity). Either way, I can talk my head off, but there is no response. Got another idea?</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-29678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amanda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-29678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My advice to you is to talk to God about this subject. He is really the only one who can set you straight. It is okay to doubt as long as it&#039;s not all the time and as long as you know that they are just doubts and not you actually believing otherwise. Just talk to God about it. If you have a solid relationship with Him then you&#039;re good :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My advice to you is to talk to God about this subject. He is really the only one who can set you straight. It is okay to doubt as long as it&#8217;s not all the time and as long as you know that they are just doubts and not you actually believing otherwise. Just talk to God about it. If you have a solid relationship with Him then you&#8217;re good <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: SnugglyBuffalo</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-29207</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SnugglyBuffalo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-29207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[lor...-&lt;blockquote&gt;I think that Jesus being God is a fundemental belief of all Christian denominations (please correct me if I am wrong) which would lead me t make the “non-Christian” assumption.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I believe the Jehova&#039;s Witnesses fall into this category. They believe Jesus is &quot;divine&quot; but he is not God. Of course, most other Christian denominations say that JWs aren&#039;t really Christians, at least in part because of that belief.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lor&#8230;-<br />
<blockquote>I think that Jesus being God is a fundemental belief of all Christian denominations (please correct me if I am wrong) which would lead me t make the “non-Christian” assumption.</p></blockquote>
<p>I believe the Jehova&#8217;s Witnesses fall into this category. They believe Jesus is &#8220;divine&#8221; but he is not God. Of course, most other Christian denominations say that JWs aren&#8217;t really Christians, at least in part because of that belief.</p>
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		<title>By: lor...</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-29200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lor...]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 04:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-29200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Looks like this blog might have gone stale with no new posts in the last bit, but, I just discovered it tonight while trying to help out one of the girls in my youth group and thought I would give it a try and answer your questions, to the best of my ability of course.

Although, I would love to give you some background on myself first to put into context where I (personally) am coming from on this one.

I grew up in the church with Christian parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles. I always believed whatever I was taught because that is what you&#039;re supposed to do. My mom got diagnosed with breast cancer and that changed everything for me. I started doubting God and hating God. Through those doubts I learnt more about God than I had my whole childhood. My doubts helped me to realize what I believed and to study and question more so I would know not only what I believed but also why I believed it. I went to Bible College for a year and have been a youth leader at my church for 4 years now.

So...

“I doubt that Jesus was born of a virgin. Is that ok? Am I still a Christian?&quot;

I don&#039;t know how somebody wouldn&#039;t doubt this, a virgin giving birth...a little unrealistic if you ask me. But, if you believe anything science has to say, google VIRGIN SHARK BIRTH, not the same as a human birth, but, it does put it into perspective at least a little bit. So, you doubt that, are you still a Christian? I would say YES.

&quot;I doubt that the bible is an accurate representation of events. Is that ok? Am I still a Christian?&quot;

The Bible was written by humans (OT was inspired by God, NT was a record of Christ followers) after the events had already occured. Think back tothe last holiday (Canada Day, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving) and tell me what happened that day, from start to finish. It was an important day, you should remember, right? Wrong. You are a human, there&#039;s no way you could ever remember every detail even if you recorded it immediately. So, is the Bible accurate, to the best of a persons memory and bias, yes the Bible is an accurate representation of events. Still don&#039;t believe it, are you still a Christian? I would say, YES

&quot;I doubt that we can really know exactly what Jesus did or said? Am I still a Christian? ” 

My answer for this question would be the same as above, unless you were there, you can not know exactly what Jesus did or said. Even being there would not neccessarily be enough if you do not know the manner or intonation behind what he said. So, you doubt that. Are you still a Christian? I would say YES.

&quot;Is it ok to doubt or is it not&quot;

My opinion based on personal experiance as mentioned above, DOUBT AWAY. But, research, study, ask people from different backgrounds what they believe and why. Ask Christians, Muslims, JV, Mormons, Atheists, anybody and everybody can help you figure out for yourself what you believe. But, make sure you remember to figure out the WHY part as well. It&#039;s the most important.

&quot;If I doubt that Jesus is God, am I a Christian with doubts, or a non-Christian?&quot;

How long does your doubt last? What are you doing about the doubt? I think that Jesus being God is a fundemental belief of all Christian denominations (please correct me if I am wrong) which would lead me t make the &quot;non-Christian&quot; assumption. But, it depend so much on the person, on the circumstances that this is a question nobody can answer for you, you must answer on your own. Ask God to reveal himself to you in some way and then be open to it. Write it down. Think it over. Tell people about it. If God is real, he would want you to know it wouldn&#039;t he? the God I know would not want somebody to miss out because he was scared of a little doubt. He will reveal himself to you, just be open. Everytime you feel, or sense God in your life WRITE IT DOWN. You&#039;ll enjoy looking back on it and it shows you how far you&#039;ve come and then the next time you go through a season of doubt, you can look back and see how God has been real in your life and how he has come through for you in the past.

If you ever want to talk things through and don&#039;t know where to turn, my e-mail address is ******@hotmail.com. I&#039;m not afraid of tough questions but can I warn you in advance I do not have all the answers and I definately never will. Nor will I ever try to convert you or make you believe anything. The Bible says &quot;test everything, keep what is good&quot; I have told all of my girls from youth that they need to test not only what their parents believe and what the pastor says on Sunday morning but also what I tell them. I challenge you to do the same. Please, PLEASE do not just accept what I say, TEST IT. Figure out if it works for you and if it doesn&#039;t, do not dwell on it.

Good luck with the questioning.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like this blog might have gone stale with no new posts in the last bit, but, I just discovered it tonight while trying to help out one of the girls in my youth group and thought I would give it a try and answer your questions, to the best of my ability of course.</p>
<p>Although, I would love to give you some background on myself first to put into context where I (personally) am coming from on this one.</p>
<p>I grew up in the church with Christian parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles. I always believed whatever I was taught because that is what you&#8217;re supposed to do. My mom got diagnosed with breast cancer and that changed everything for me. I started doubting God and hating God. Through those doubts I learnt more about God than I had my whole childhood. My doubts helped me to realize what I believed and to study and question more so I would know not only what I believed but also why I believed it. I went to Bible College for a year and have been a youth leader at my church for 4 years now.</p>
<p>So&#8230;</p>
<p>“I doubt that Jesus was born of a virgin. Is that ok? Am I still a Christian?&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how somebody wouldn&#8217;t doubt this, a virgin giving birth&#8230;a little unrealistic if you ask me. But, if you believe anything science has to say, google VIRGIN SHARK BIRTH, not the same as a human birth, but, it does put it into perspective at least a little bit. So, you doubt that, are you still a Christian? I would say YES.</p>
<p>&#8220;I doubt that the bible is an accurate representation of events. Is that ok? Am I still a Christian?&#8221;</p>
<p>The Bible was written by humans (OT was inspired by God, NT was a record of Christ followers) after the events had already occured. Think back tothe last holiday (Canada Day, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving) and tell me what happened that day, from start to finish. It was an important day, you should remember, right? Wrong. You are a human, there&#8217;s no way you could ever remember every detail even if you recorded it immediately. So, is the Bible accurate, to the best of a persons memory and bias, yes the Bible is an accurate representation of events. Still don&#8217;t believe it, are you still a Christian? I would say, YES</p>
<p>&#8220;I doubt that we can really know exactly what Jesus did or said? Am I still a Christian? ” </p>
<p>My answer for this question would be the same as above, unless you were there, you can not know exactly what Jesus did or said. Even being there would not neccessarily be enough if you do not know the manner or intonation behind what he said. So, you doubt that. Are you still a Christian? I would say YES.</p>
<p>&#8220;Is it ok to doubt or is it not&#8221;</p>
<p>My opinion based on personal experiance as mentioned above, DOUBT AWAY. But, research, study, ask people from different backgrounds what they believe and why. Ask Christians, Muslims, JV, Mormons, Atheists, anybody and everybody can help you figure out for yourself what you believe. But, make sure you remember to figure out the WHY part as well. It&#8217;s the most important.</p>
<p>&#8220;If I doubt that Jesus is God, am I a Christian with doubts, or a non-Christian?&#8221;</p>
<p>How long does your doubt last? What are you doing about the doubt? I think that Jesus being God is a fundemental belief of all Christian denominations (please correct me if I am wrong) which would lead me t make the &#8220;non-Christian&#8221; assumption. But, it depend so much on the person, on the circumstances that this is a question nobody can answer for you, you must answer on your own. Ask God to reveal himself to you in some way and then be open to it. Write it down. Think it over. Tell people about it. If God is real, he would want you to know it wouldn&#8217;t he? the God I know would not want somebody to miss out because he was scared of a little doubt. He will reveal himself to you, just be open. Everytime you feel, or sense God in your life WRITE IT DOWN. You&#8217;ll enjoy looking back on it and it shows you how far you&#8217;ve come and then the next time you go through a season of doubt, you can look back and see how God has been real in your life and how he has come through for you in the past.</p>
<p>If you ever want to talk things through and don&#8217;t know where to turn, my e-mail address is ******@hotmail.com. I&#8217;m not afraid of tough questions but can I warn you in advance I do not have all the answers and I definately never will. Nor will I ever try to convert you or make you believe anything. The Bible says &#8220;test everything, keep what is good&#8221; I have told all of my girls from youth that they need to test not only what their parents believe and what the pastor says on Sunday morning but also what I tell them. I challenge you to do the same. Please, PLEASE do not just accept what I say, TEST IT. Figure out if it works for you and if it doesn&#8217;t, do not dwell on it.</p>
<p>Good luck with the questioning.</p>
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		<title>By: the strange notion of agnosticism &#171; I can&#8217;t live with or without you</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-28652</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[the strange notion of agnosticism &#171; I can&#8217;t live with or without you]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-28652</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 22, 2008 -- 12:15 am by wowy    Some people (...) talk as if there was a continuum: atheism &#8211;&gt; agnosticism &#8211;&gt; deism &#8211;&gt; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 22, 2008 &#8212; 12:15 am by wowy    Some people (&#8230;) talk as if there was a continuum: atheism &#8211;&gt; agnosticism &#8211;&gt; deism &#8211;&gt; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Philip</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-28642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-28642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about these?  Without necessarily touching either the historicity of Jesus or the existence of god...

&quot;I doubt the specialness/chosenness/justification/redeemed status of the church (invisible).  Am I still a Christian?&quot;

For those who look at Jesus&#039; sacrifice as the mode to redemption: &quot;I doubt the efficacy of Jesus&#039; sacrifice, either for personal or cosmic redemption.  Is it OK?  Am I still a Christian?&quot;

For those who look at Jesus&#039; life as the mode to redemption: &quot;I can see more obviously moral routes through life than the one connected to the Jesus tradition.  Is it OK? Am I still a Christian?&quot;

&quot;I doubt that god can or ever has revealed himself.  Is it OK? Am I still a Christian?&quot;

On a similar line, &quot;I doubt that, even if god has revealed himself, that we&#039;re capable of knowing the content of that revelation.  Is it OK?  Am I still a Christian?&quot;

&quot;I believe in god, and that god can reveal himself, but I find the church&#039;s testimony deeply suspect.  Is it OK?  Can I still be a Christian?&quot;

&quot;I just can&#039;t see that god really cares about humanity at all, at least not in ways in which humans can care for each other.  Is that OK?  Can I still be a Christian?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about these?  Without necessarily touching either the historicity of Jesus or the existence of god&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;I doubt the specialness/chosenness/justification/redeemed status of the church (invisible).  Am I still a Christian?&#8221;</p>
<p>For those who look at Jesus&#8217; sacrifice as the mode to redemption: &#8220;I doubt the efficacy of Jesus&#8217; sacrifice, either for personal or cosmic redemption.  Is it OK?  Am I still a Christian?&#8221;</p>
<p>For those who look at Jesus&#8217; life as the mode to redemption: &#8220;I can see more obviously moral routes through life than the one connected to the Jesus tradition.  Is it OK? Am I still a Christian?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I doubt that god can or ever has revealed himself.  Is it OK? Am I still a Christian?&#8221;</p>
<p>On a similar line, &#8220;I doubt that, even if god has revealed himself, that we&#8217;re capable of knowing the content of that revelation.  Is it OK?  Am I still a Christian?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I believe in god, and that god can reveal himself, but I find the church&#8217;s testimony deeply suspect.  Is it OK?  Can I still be a Christian?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I just can&#8217;t see that god really cares about humanity at all, at least not in ways in which humans can care for each other.  Is that OK?  Can I still be a Christian?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: LeoPardus</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2008/10/15/how-much-doubt-is-too-much/#comment-28569</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeoPardus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 03:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticatheism.wordpress.com/?p=2066#comment-28569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apropos to the original article:  I think it&#039;s safe to say that you are no longer a Christian when you don&#039;t believe there is a God. (Unless you&#039;re talking of Christians in the ethnic sense, like they do in Lebanon.)

I think it might also be safe to say you&#039;re not a Christian when you don&#039;t believe Jesus was really an historical person.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apropos to the original article:  I think it&#8217;s safe to say that you are no longer a Christian when you don&#8217;t believe there is a God. (Unless you&#8217;re talking of Christians in the ethnic sense, like they do in Lebanon.)</p>
<p>I think it might also be safe to say you&#8217;re not a Christian when you don&#8217;t believe Jesus was really an historical person.</p>
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