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	<title>Comments on: God loves you&#8230;.</title>
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	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-46081</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-46081</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Back to 
God loves you...
and because he loves you, vengeance is his

Sometimes I wonder if people don&#039;t follow religion, instead of only a desire to be loved, but out of a desire for revenge.  

The old, hate the sin, love the sinner, is justified because if you truly loved someone you would vehemently hate whatever caused harm to them.  (And that harm is called sin.)

So, if you love those three year old babies in Thailand and those orphan kids in Angola you will hate what is causing them so much harm.  We want justice for those kids and if we can&#039;t make the harm go away, we can at least desire harm for the injurers.  Eye for an eye?

It feels good to be that kind of angry.  It is righteous to desire justice, after all, its because we love those being hurt.

But, it is still nasty to imagine tormenting another human, so we can imagine that it was an evil spirit causing them to rape, murder, torture...  either that, or we make the offender into something sub-human.  Cuz, we are supposed to love all people, right? 

And, life&#039;s unfairness seems easier to bear if those responsible get back what they gave out.  How else do powerless people deal with the unfairness of life?

Or is that just a way of keeping people powerless and quiet about changing things?  In the end, if that rapist of babies is going to be punished for it, I don&#039;t need to do anything else.

In some cases, justice brings hope.  (I can endure whatever suffering now, because everything will be made right later.)  And how do you live without hope?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to<br />
God loves you&#8230;<br />
and because he loves you, vengeance is his</p>
<p>Sometimes I wonder if people don&#8217;t follow religion, instead of only a desire to be loved, but out of a desire for revenge.  </p>
<p>The old, hate the sin, love the sinner, is justified because if you truly loved someone you would vehemently hate whatever caused harm to them.  (And that harm is called sin.)</p>
<p>So, if you love those three year old babies in Thailand and those orphan kids in Angola you will hate what is causing them so much harm.  We want justice for those kids and if we can&#8217;t make the harm go away, we can at least desire harm for the injurers.  Eye for an eye?</p>
<p>It feels good to be that kind of angry.  It is righteous to desire justice, after all, its because we love those being hurt.</p>
<p>But, it is still nasty to imagine tormenting another human, so we can imagine that it was an evil spirit causing them to rape, murder, torture&#8230;  either that, or we make the offender into something sub-human.  Cuz, we are supposed to love all people, right? </p>
<p>And, life&#8217;s unfairness seems easier to bear if those responsible get back what they gave out.  How else do powerless people deal with the unfairness of life?</p>
<p>Or is that just a way of keeping people powerless and quiet about changing things?  In the end, if that rapist of babies is going to be punished for it, I don&#8217;t need to do anything else.</p>
<p>In some cases, justice brings hope.  (I can endure whatever suffering now, because everything will be made right later.)  And how do you live without hope?</p>
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		<title>By: Quester</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-42452</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-42452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bravo, James, and best wishes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo, James, and best wishes.</p>
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		<title>By: James Smith João Pessoa, Brazil</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-42446</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Smith João Pessoa, Brazil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-42446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Becoming Free

Blame it on my parents.  They always told me to &quot;think for myself&quot;.  I doubt they ever considered what would happen if I really did that.  

Now, I suspect what they meant was, &quot;Think what we tell you but do it in your own words.&quot;  Too late.  When I was 13, I began to question everything and soon the total absurdity of religion became apparent.  

Because I have been “encouraged” (forced) to read the bible several times, it was easy for me to see the contradictions in the book, what christians professed to believe, and how they lived.

When I refused to go with them to their church, they said they “Would make me go.&quot;  

I asked them, “How are you going to make me? How will forcing me to attend church change my mind?”  Already, their attitude was starting to harden me against everything else they would tell me.

Their next idea was to have their minister talk to me.  I told them it was a waste of everyone&#039;s time.  They persisted and had him come to the house to “Talk some sense into me.”  (as if they ever works for anyone)  After about 15 minutes, of him quoting the bible to me and me pointing out that he was either wrong in his quotes or showing him how it said something else in another place, he became very angry and told me I was going to hell.  I suspect it was because I knew the bible better than he did and was, at age 13, able to prove how ridiculous his arguments were.

I told him, “If there is a Hell I&#039;ll see you there.  Save me a nice place, OK?&quot;  He said I was an impertinent, disrespectful child.  By then, I was angry myself and for the first time, I told a christian that he was a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool.  My parents insisted that I apologize.  I refused and left the room to a lot of yelling and threats.

For the next four years, I heard about this at least once a week.  So the night I graduated high school, I left my parent&#039;s home and didn&#039;t see them again for well over a year.  By then, I had completed a couple of years of college, which fortunately, I was able to pay for myself.  I was entering the army and wanted to try to make peace with them, but had to listen to the same old recriminations and arguments again.  

The next time I saw them was two years later when I was getting married.  After several years of an on-again, off-again relationship they finally agreed to just not discuss it any more.  I&#039;d like to say that worked, but slowly subtle hints became outright condemnation.  Then I took a job transfer from Ohio to Arizona, so family meetings were rare enough to become occasions for something other than contention. 

What did I learn?  Even your family can turn against you if you refuse to share in their illusions.  No, there are times when you must become your own person and stand firm in what you know to be true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Becoming Free</p>
<p>Blame it on my parents.  They always told me to &#8220;think for myself&#8221;.  I doubt they ever considered what would happen if I really did that.  </p>
<p>Now, I suspect what they meant was, &#8220;Think what we tell you but do it in your own words.&#8221;  Too late.  When I was 13, I began to question everything and soon the total absurdity of religion became apparent.  </p>
<p>Because I have been “encouraged” (forced) to read the bible several times, it was easy for me to see the contradictions in the book, what christians professed to believe, and how they lived.</p>
<p>When I refused to go with them to their church, they said they “Would make me go.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I asked them, “How are you going to make me? How will forcing me to attend church change my mind?”  Already, their attitude was starting to harden me against everything else they would tell me.</p>
<p>Their next idea was to have their minister talk to me.  I told them it was a waste of everyone&#8217;s time.  They persisted and had him come to the house to “Talk some sense into me.”  (as if they ever works for anyone)  After about 15 minutes, of him quoting the bible to me and me pointing out that he was either wrong in his quotes or showing him how it said something else in another place, he became very angry and told me I was going to hell.  I suspect it was because I knew the bible better than he did and was, at age 13, able to prove how ridiculous his arguments were.</p>
<p>I told him, “If there is a Hell I&#8217;ll see you there.  Save me a nice place, OK?&#8221;  He said I was an impertinent, disrespectful child.  By then, I was angry myself and for the first time, I told a christian that he was a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool.  My parents insisted that I apologize.  I refused and left the room to a lot of yelling and threats.</p>
<p>For the next four years, I heard about this at least once a week.  So the night I graduated high school, I left my parent&#8217;s home and didn&#8217;t see them again for well over a year.  By then, I had completed a couple of years of college, which fortunately, I was able to pay for myself.  I was entering the army and wanted to try to make peace with them, but had to listen to the same old recriminations and arguments again.  </p>
<p>The next time I saw them was two years later when I was getting married.  After several years of an on-again, off-again relationship they finally agreed to just not discuss it any more.  I&#8217;d like to say that worked, but slowly subtle hints became outright condemnation.  Then I took a job transfer from Ohio to Arizona, so family meetings were rare enough to become occasions for something other than contention. </p>
<p>What did I learn?  Even your family can turn against you if you refuse to share in their illusions.  No, there are times when you must become your own person and stand firm in what you know to be true.</p>
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		<title>By: Ubi Dubium</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-36307</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ubi Dubium]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-36307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Why would you want to get elected to public office?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
To keep fundamentalists out.  The best way to get rid of the influence of crazy bible-thumping politicians is to get involved in politics and help elect better qualified candidates.  I do just that.  I&#039;ve seen polls recenlty, however, that when people are asked &quot;Would you consider voting for a ____?&quot;,  the answer  &quot;atheist&quot; had the lowest percentage of &quot;yes&quot; answers.  There is only one openly non-theist member of Congress, and he still goes to a UU church.  It would be great if an openly non-theist candidate could be elected in my area (Virginia), but we atheists have a lot of PR work ahead of us before that can ever happen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Why would you want to get elected to public office?</p></blockquote>
<p>To keep fundamentalists out.  The best way to get rid of the influence of crazy bible-thumping politicians is to get involved in politics and help elect better qualified candidates.  I do just that.  I&#8217;ve seen polls recenlty, however, that when people are asked &#8220;Would you consider voting for a ____?&#8221;,  the answer  &#8220;atheist&#8221; had the lowest percentage of &#8220;yes&#8221; answers.  There is only one openly non-theist member of Congress, and he still goes to a UU church.  It would be great if an openly non-theist candidate could be elected in my area (Virginia), but we atheists have a lot of PR work ahead of us before that can ever happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-36304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-36304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Ubi #101:

&lt;i&gt;There are preachers on TV shouting to their flocks about how “evil” atheists are, there are billboards with “Why do atheists hate America?”, we can’t get elected to public office, and even on blogs where de-converts reach out to each other in support we are constantly pelted with “convert back now, you bad person” sermons. Yes, negative.&lt;/i&gt;

Why would you &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; to get elected to public office?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Ubi #101:</p>
<p><i>There are preachers on TV shouting to their flocks about how “evil” atheists are, there are billboards with “Why do atheists hate America?”, we can’t get elected to public office, and even on blogs where de-converts reach out to each other in support we are constantly pelted with “convert back now, you bad person” sermons. Yes, negative.</i></p>
<p>Why would you <i>want</i> to get elected to public office?</p>
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		<title>By: Janus Grayden</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-36291</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Janus Grayden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-36291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Buyer beware*

*being wary may result in eternal damnation]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buyer beware*</p>
<p>*being wary may result in eternal damnation</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: exileguy</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-32621</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[exileguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-32621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[if there were only truth in advertising...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if there were only truth in advertising&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bailey</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-30984</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bailey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 00:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-30984</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i&#039;m glad you don&#039;t :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m glad you don&#8217;t <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: orDover</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-30899</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[orDover]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 05:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-30899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Sorry if it came across that I was trying to force my beliefs and make you believe what I do.&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t think you were trying to force your beliefs, and no where did I say that. But you were &quot;begging the question&quot;, as it were, and then asking why we answered the said question.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Sorry if it came across that I was trying to force my beliefs and make you believe what I do.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you were trying to force your beliefs, and no where did I say that. But you were &#8220;begging the question&#8221;, as it were, and then asking why we answered the said question.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: batty007</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/01/20/god-loves-you/#comment-30898</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[batty007]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 04:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2413#comment-30898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So far off topic!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So far off topic!</p>
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