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	<title>Comments on: There is No God: by Penn Jillette</title>
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	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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		<title>By: Quester</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31209</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31209</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lucien,

How do you know what you claim about &quot;the&quot; reward, eternal torment, goodness and afterlife? From what sources do you get your information?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucien,</p>
<p>How do you know what you claim about &#8220;the&#8221; reward, eternal torment, goodness and afterlife? From what sources do you get your information?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lucian</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31207</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I liked the atheist slogan that said &quot;&lt;i&gt;be good for goodness&#039; sake&lt;/i&gt;&quot; very, very much. What they probably did not understand (and neither did their opponents, who do believe in the eternal reward in the afterlife) is that the reward is not an exterior imposed thing; it&#039;s an interior and achieved thing. And so is the eternal torment. And that the good &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; truly good, and that goodness and kindness and love and purity are their own reward, whose sweetness will be better tasted from in the next life than it already is in this one. And so will it be with the evils: their fruit of despair, bitterness and disgust will be felt much more poignantly in the afterlife than they are already felt in this one. As a proverb goes, one reaps what one sows; or: one sleeps as well as one has made one&#039;s bed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked the atheist slogan that said &#8220;<i>be good for goodness&#8217; sake</i>&#8221; very, very much. What they probably did not understand (and neither did their opponents, who do believe in the eternal reward in the afterlife) is that the reward is not an exterior imposed thing; it&#8217;s an interior and achieved thing. And so is the eternal torment. And that the good <b>is</b> truly good, and that goodness and kindness and love and purity are their own reward, whose sweetness will be better tasted from in the next life than it already is in this one. And so will it be with the evils: their fruit of despair, bitterness and disgust will be felt much more poignantly in the afterlife than they are already felt in this one. As a proverb goes, one reaps what one sows; or: one sleeps as well as one has made one&#8217;s bed.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lucian</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31206</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31206</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;what if there is no eternity in which to echo&lt;/i&gt;?

It&#039;s true that it&#039;s very important how we build or construct our own character, soul, heart, and mind. And it begins here and now, and we reap at least some of the fruits here and now: we can share in love, goodness, kindness, selflessness, joy, purity, freedom from passions and ease from burdains in this life ... if we truly want and try to. The Apostles beheld Christ&#039;s glory while still on earth, at the mount of Transfiguration, and so the words of the Word were fulfilled, when He said to them: &quot;&lt;i&gt;some of you will not taste of death until they&#039;ll see the Kingdom of God coming with power&lt;/i&gt;&quot;. Truly happy and blessed and at ease is the man whose heart shares and delights in these things (&lt;i&gt;Matthew 6:21; Luke 12:34&lt;/a&gt;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>what if there is no eternity in which to echo</i>?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that it&#8217;s very important how we build or construct our own character, soul, heart, and mind. And it begins here and now, and we reap at least some of the fruits here and now: we can share in love, goodness, kindness, selflessness, joy, purity, freedom from passions and ease from burdains in this life &#8230; if we truly want and try to. The Apostles beheld Christ&#8217;s glory while still on earth, at the mount of Transfiguration, and so the words of the Word were fulfilled, when He said to them: &#8220;<i>some of you will not taste of death until they&#8217;ll see the Kingdom of God coming with power</i>&#8220;. Truly happy and blessed and at ease is the man whose heart shares and delights in these things (<i>Matthew 6:21; Luke 12:34).</i></p>
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		<title>By: LeoPardus</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31201</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeoPardus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;That is the composition fallacy. &lt;/i&gt;

Please, Yurka. STOP trying to do formal logic. You can&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>That is the composition fallacy. </i></p>
<p>Please, Yurka. STOP trying to do formal logic. You can&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31194</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Josh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ahhh yes, good ole Ecclesiastes. With all the &quot;vanities&quot; flying about, one could probably conclude that Solomon was himself was a nihilist of sorts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh yes, good ole Ecclesiastes. With all the &#8220;vanities&#8221; flying about, one could probably conclude that Solomon was himself was a nihilist of sorts.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31191</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 06:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i can&#039;t say i agree with him, but it is extremely well written. reminds me of a book in the Bible.. actually... just omit the God parts and you got yourselves Penn.. only without the Jello

Ecclesiastes 9 (The Message)

Seize life! Eat bread with gusto, 
   Drink wine with a robust heart. 
   Oh yes—God takes pleasure in your pleasure! 
   Dress festively every morning. 
   Don&#039;t skimp on colors and scarves. 
   Relish life with the spouse you love 
   Each and every day of your precarious life. 
   Each day is God&#039;s gift. It&#039;s all you get in exchange 
   For the hard work of staying alive. 
   Make the most of each one! 
   Whatever turns up, grab it and do it. And heartily! 
   This is your last and only chance at it, 
   For there&#039;s neither work to do nor thoughts to think 
   In the company of the dead, where you&#039;re most certainly headed. 

 11 I took another walk around the neighborhood and realized that on this earth as it is— 

   The race is not always to the swift, 
   Nor the battle to the strong, 
   Nor satisfaction to the wise, 
   Nor riches to the smart, 
   Nor grace to the learned. 
   Sooner or later bad luck hits us all. 

 12 No one can predict misfortune. 
   Like fish caught in a cruel net or birds in a trap, 
   So men and women are caught 
   By accidents evil and sudden.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i can&#8217;t say i agree with him, but it is extremely well written. reminds me of a book in the Bible.. actually&#8230; just omit the God parts and you got yourselves Penn.. only without the Jello</p>
<p>Ecclesiastes 9 (The Message)</p>
<p>Seize life! Eat bread with gusto,<br />
   Drink wine with a robust heart.<br />
   Oh yes—God takes pleasure in your pleasure!<br />
   Dress festively every morning.<br />
   Don&#8217;t skimp on colors and scarves.<br />
   Relish life with the spouse you love<br />
   Each and every day of your precarious life.<br />
   Each day is God&#8217;s gift. It&#8217;s all you get in exchange<br />
   For the hard work of staying alive.<br />
   Make the most of each one!<br />
   Whatever turns up, grab it and do it. And heartily!<br />
   This is your last and only chance at it,<br />
   For there&#8217;s neither work to do nor thoughts to think<br />
   In the company of the dead, where you&#8217;re most certainly headed. </p>
<p> 11 I took another walk around the neighborhood and realized that on this earth as it is— </p>
<p>   The race is not always to the swift,<br />
   Nor the battle to the strong,<br />
   Nor satisfaction to the wise,<br />
   Nor riches to the smart,<br />
   Nor grace to the learned.<br />
   Sooner or later bad luck hits us all. </p>
<p> 12 No one can predict misfortune.<br />
   Like fish caught in a cruel net or birds in a trap,<br />
   So men and women are caught<br />
   By accidents evil and sudden.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: paleale</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paleale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;It is precisely because they are a part of an eternity that the finite moments are not meaningless.&lt;/i&gt;

I think I see your point, Yurka.  Since our actions determine how and where we inhabit eternity then a great amount of significance can be given to each action or &#039;moment&#039;.  As Maximus Decimus Meridius said, &quot;what we do here on earth... echoes in eternity&quot;. :-)  The catch is, however, what if there is no eternity in which to echo? 

You seem to display a trend of drawing extreme conclusions from small amounts of data; atheists are all nihilists (especially Woody Allen), all atheists are unhappy and I am a miserable sot, drowning my sorrows in meaninglessness and beer.

There was a logic exercise that we did in elementary school that went something like this.  Maybe you did this too.

Suzy is unhappy
Suzy is a ballerina
Conclusion:  All ballerinas are unhappy
True or False?

This exercise can be applied to any group.  Basketball players, lefties, astronauts, kittens, Buddhists, Lithuanians, Christians and yes... even atheists.  Suzy may be clinically depressed.  Or an abuse victim.  Or her cat may have died.  There&#039;s simply insufficient data.  I don&#039;t mean to sound patronizing here but dude you have to stop making these ludicrous insinuations.  It&#039;s insulting and it makes you look foolish.

I like to believe the best about people.  And I want to believe the best about you.  I believe that you are an intelligent person.  But this seems to be simply a monologue of sorts on your part without a reasonable willingness to consider alternate points of view.  We here in this forum are where we are because we have been willing to consider things apart from dogma.  I would hope that we could engage in a sensible dialogue, setting the dogma aside, and just talk.  

sincerely,
Paleale]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It is precisely because they are a part of an eternity that the finite moments are not meaningless.</i></p>
<p>I think I see your point, Yurka.  Since our actions determine how and where we inhabit eternity then a great amount of significance can be given to each action or &#8216;moment&#8217;.  As Maximus Decimus Meridius said, &#8220;what we do here on earth&#8230; echoes in eternity&#8221;. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   The catch is, however, what if there is no eternity in which to echo? </p>
<p>You seem to display a trend of drawing extreme conclusions from small amounts of data; atheists are all nihilists (especially Woody Allen), all atheists are unhappy and I am a miserable sot, drowning my sorrows in meaninglessness and beer.</p>
<p>There was a logic exercise that we did in elementary school that went something like this.  Maybe you did this too.</p>
<p>Suzy is unhappy<br />
Suzy is a ballerina<br />
Conclusion:  All ballerinas are unhappy<br />
True or False?</p>
<p>This exercise can be applied to any group.  Basketball players, lefties, astronauts, kittens, Buddhists, Lithuanians, Christians and yes&#8230; even atheists.  Suzy may be clinically depressed.  Or an abuse victim.  Or her cat may have died.  There&#8217;s simply insufficient data.  I don&#8217;t mean to sound patronizing here but dude you have to stop making these ludicrous insinuations.  It&#8217;s insulting and it makes you look foolish.</p>
<p>I like to believe the best about people.  And I want to believe the best about you.  I believe that you are an intelligent person.  But this seems to be simply a monologue of sorts on your part without a reasonable willingness to consider alternate points of view.  We here in this forum are where we are because we have been willing to consider things apart from dogma.  I would hope that we could engage in a sensible dialogue, setting the dogma aside, and just talk.  </p>
<p>sincerely,<br />
Paleale</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Josh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, I agree with SnugglyBuffalo. The more rare something is, the more valuable it is. Your life only happens once and is the only one of its kind in the perceivable universe and is therefore priceless.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I agree with SnugglyBuffalo. The more rare something is, the more valuable it is. Your life only happens once and is the only one of its kind in the perceivable universe and is therefore priceless.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SnugglyBuffalo</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31184</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SnugglyBuffalo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Huh, I would think the opposite: that being a part of a finite life-span makes each finite moment much more meaningful than it might be if it were part of an eternity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh, I would think the opposite: that being a part of a finite life-span makes each finite moment much more meaningful than it might be if it were part of an eternity.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/02/05/there-is-no-god-by-penn-jillette/#comment-31183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeffrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2441#comment-31183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, basically what you are saying is that if you get to heaven and God tells you it only lasts a million years, you&#039;ll spend your time moping around contemplating the meaninglessness of existence.

Then let&#039;s say at the end of the million years, God tells you that you get another million years.  You wouldn&#039;t be happy to hear this - it would only mean more meaninglessness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, basically what you are saying is that if you get to heaven and God tells you it only lasts a million years, you&#8217;ll spend your time moping around contemplating the meaninglessness of existence.</p>
<p>Then let&#8217;s say at the end of the million years, God tells you that you get another million years.  You wouldn&#8217;t be happy to hear this &#8211; it would only mean more meaninglessness.</p>
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