Comments on: Reconciling the reality of my experiences with church teachings on life

By: cag

cag — Sat, 08 Dec 2012 03:58:20 +0000

JoAnne # 15, imaginary friends are not friends, just thoughts in your brain. They may be comforting thoughts, but just thoughts. The church is interested in you for your statistical worth and your wallet. The church is the people who make up the congregation. Without people, a church is just another abandoned building. Read your bible from the beginning in a critical manner. Ask yourself “Does this make sense?”. Does it make sense that the bible claims that the earth was created before the rest of the universe? Does it make sense that the earth took 5 days to create but the vast, nearly endless universe was all created in one day? Does making woman out of a rib make sense? Does a talking serpent make sense? Does any of it make sense? Some have examined and concluded that it does not make sense. Those people are no longer part of any church. Do not automatically accept the words of anyone who has a vested interest in convincing you that they have the answer if only you give them money.

Think for yourself, don’t hire someone else to think for you.

By: JoAnne Braley

JoAnne Braley — Sat, 08 Dec 2012 00:05:42 +0000

So much to answer here, but I’ll start with the “good” Catholic father who abused you…he was NOT a Good Catholic or father. I had the benefit of chosing the church myself when I was a child. I studied it and got baptized because Jesus made Peter, his rock, into his church. The reason the Catholic faith seems complicated is because it started out very simple, but as each heresy came along, they had to add some rules. From very smart leaders, with counsels. I went away from the Church because my first sexual experience was a rape from a Catholic boy (man), and he turned out to be a terrible person. Other things happened to me by Catholics…well, there are good ones and bad ones in EVERY group. Jesus said to do two things. 1. Love God above all others (and I’ve found if you don’t believe in God, you think you are god…so, who’s your god?), and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself (and neighbors are every person). I was fortunate to go to a convent school and taught to see Jesus in everyone, past the bad. Say a prayer for them. I finally came back to the Church after going to many others, Buddha, the Temple, New Age, Course of Miracles…and came BACK after reading lots of books about crusades and such, and found it is certain people in the church who are wrong…not the church. So, I’m unhappy that you were treated badly. I was also at times, as I went to 14 schools, and when you are the NEWBIE, the bully has a whack at you, but if you keep looking, there’s a friend. Many people have hurt me, betrayed me, taken my money, scammed me. Just remember “Many are called, but few are chosen.” Stick to the New Testament, Book of John..love…I find I’m better off without the husbands I had, the fancy houses, country clubs, as there aren’t many friends there. You do have a friend in Jesus, and you will be judge only according to what you know. I believe you have done no harm.

By: Maria Tait

Maria Tait — Mon, 04 May 2009 12:46:10 +0000

I think a good few Christians go through the same process, sadly many don’t. There are alot of mixed up people trying their best and getting it wrong in our churches (as in all walks of life) and that is because you’re right, a lot of them never really truly take a good hard look at what they believe in before they start making burdens for mens backs (as Christ also said) never lifting a finger to help them. It is always about other people’s faults and rarely about them.
However, and this is the crucial point, all true Christians have to lose that naive simplistic and engineered faith they grew up with and go find the new path for themselves….which you did.
Another (unsourced unfortunately) quote is that noone should dare to make his religion responsible for his own salvation. Ain’t that the truth? We all have to stand up and be counted for our actions and chosen paths in the end.
I was abused by my good catholic father throughout my childhood. He crushed my faith and my personality, the delusion died. But through faith in Christ and actually reading the bible and digging into the foundations and spirituality of the Catholic Church, as well studying other paths including atheism, agnosticism, talking to Mormons, jehovahs witnesses, buddhists, spritualists etc I came back of my own free will with a new and very different faith.
Fantasy land it is not I can assure you but it has opened my heart and my mind. We are all built for faith, whether we like it or not we all have faith in something, be it religion, science, materialism, atheism as a life choice but that deconversion experience is an essential one. We all need it to move on. x
P.S my DH and DS are both Aspergers. I love living with honest people

By: Eve's Apple

Eve's Apple — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:33:50 +0000

Icanseeformilesandmiles – I think you have hit the nail on the head when you said that you don’t think the hurt itself leads to deconversion, but it gives the person a flash of reality.

One of the reasons I have always found it difficult to reconcile religion and experience is that on one hand I was constantly being told to face “reality” by the same people more or less who were also insistent that I believe in an elaborate fantasy world called Catholicism. I was told that there was something wrong with me, that “how I saw life was not really how life was”; and that it was NOT all right for me to openly have a fantasy world–but if it involved God, Jesus, Mary, saints, angels and the like, that was not only ok, I HAD to accept it without question. I remember getting into an argument with my brother about the nature of fairyland (I think we were about 5 or 6)–he kept insisting fairyland was one way and I kept insisting that no, it was not the way he saw it. And I did believe in fairyland back then. But in the middle of the argument it hit me–this must be what grownups do when they argue about religion. Of course I kept that heretical thought to myself!! I wasn’t stupid, I had a pretty good idea what my parents and the powers that be around me were capable of doing, and so I went along with the game for the sake of survival. If you were one of those lucky people who grew up without fear that you could or would be locked away in an institution then I envy you. Many children do not possess any civil liberties whatsoever. There was a case not too long ago in a town near me where a teenager died in a house fire because she was chained to her bed with a dog chain. The parents’ excuse was that she was emotionally and developmentally disabled and needed to be chained for her ow good. Not one person, not even Child Protective Services or government officials, were able to step in and help this girl, even though they had been repeatedly told of the situation! And yes, her parents are church-goers, and, I am told, their church is standing behind them. When I hear stories like that I think there but for the grace of God, or luck, or whatever, go I . . .

By: icanseeformilesandmiles

icanseeformilesandmiles — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:23:44 +0000

Eve’s Apple,
I have a friend who has Asperger’s syndrome. It has been a difficult road for her too, although she still believes (as far as I know).
I think the religious delusion persists against all logic and facts until something causes a crack in the glass bubble. Whatever the cause, I don’t think the hurt itself leads to deconversion, but it gives the person a flash of reality. An honest person looks at the crack and follows the path until more cracks appear and finally the bubble comes crashing down. I remember walking out of my office one day, looking up at the sky and saying “My goodness- it’s not real!” It was an amazing revelation, refreshing and powerful as the dissonance and cloudy religious thought faded away.

By: Kane

Kane — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:29:02 +0000

I stumbledupon this website and am glad I did. Although my de-conversion had more to do with irreconcilable differences between christianity and my personal reality, the result was the same. However, I have some fond memories of the church and I support anyone who to be a part of it. It was good to me and is the cornerstone in the lives of many good people I know. Too many (most) non-believer sites are full of arrogance and lack of understanding.

By: atimetorend

atimetorend — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:40:18 +0000

Right, there are a vast multitude of catalysts for people questioning their faith, different for different people. But the end result is the same, the person who leaves their faith behind found found it lacking, found reasons they did not believe it. Just because one version of christianity is not morally repugnant or intellectually untenable or says it is built on Relationship instead of dogma does not make it Truth.

By: SnugglyBuffalo

SnugglyBuffalo — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:42:23 +0000

Might as well add my voice to the list of those who were not hurt by Christianity. It just didn’t make sense anymore, so I left. For an additional pattern-breaker, I went from a fairly fundamentalist theism (I was finally beginning to consider the possibility of theistic evolution) to atheist in the span of maybe 4 months, max; de-conversion usually seems to be a years-long affair, for most.

I like Chuck’s characterization; there may be patterns to de-conversion, but there certainly aren’t anything like rules. And the patterns are weak enough that you’re better off not making any assumptions about de-cons.

By: ArchangelChuck

ArchangelChuck — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:44:01 +0000

Ubi’s point is valid. Though patterns emerge, those patterns are not a “rule” by any stretch of the imagination. Indeed, I myself have never been “hurt” by the church or the Christian religion. I’ve never felt duped, lied to, whatever, in having associated with it in the past. Instead, I simply made the choice — of my own free will and conscience — not to subscribe to the Christian religion any longer. I believe that others have the capacity to make that choice on their own accord if they are strong enough to face the alleged possibility of their own eternal torment with courage. I was able to do so simply by realizing that such a concept is nothing more than the concoction of priests to manipulate the masses through guilt and emotional pandering.

It seemed to naturally follow that, when I found my ability to discern truth from priestcraft, I also lost my belief in: fairies, flying spaghetti monsters, orbiting teapots, and ancient desert gods.

By: Ubi Dubium

Ubi Dubium — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:26:46 +0000

A pattern for a few, perhaps, but not nearly all. For me I wasn’t hurt or wounded by my childhood church in any way. I think trying to lump any large group of us into one “pattern” is not going to work.