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	<title>Comments on: The Illusion of Moral Absolutes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:52:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cag</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-76610</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-76610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[onecae, every word in every language is a human construct. What is your point?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>onecae, every word in every language is a human construct. What is your point?</p>
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		<title>By: onecae</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-76605</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[onecae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-76605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The pathetic fallacy is the treatment of inanimate objects as if they had human feelings, thought, or sensations.[1] The word &#039;pathetic&#039; in this use is related to &#039;pathos&#039; or &#039;empathy&#039; (capability of feeling), and is not pejorative. In the discussion of literature, the pathetic fallacy is similar to personification. - definition from Wikipedia.

Evolution is also a human construct.  It doesn&#039;t do, or think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pathetic fallacy is the treatment of inanimate objects as if they had human feelings, thought, or sensations.[1] The word &#8216;pathetic&#8217; in this use is related to &#8216;pathos&#8217; or &#8216;empathy&#8217; (capability of feeling), and is not pejorative. In the discussion of literature, the pathetic fallacy is similar to personification. &#8211; definition from Wikipedia.</p>
<p>Evolution is also a human construct.  It doesn&#8217;t do, or think.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: slrman</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-51132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[slrman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 23:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-51132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To quote Robert A. Heinlein, &quot;There is only one true sin, hurting someone else unnecessarily.  Everything else is invented nonsense.&quot;  To that I add, to permit one small group to control the thoughts and actions of a large group.  

That last also seems to define the purpose behind religion, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To quote Robert A. Heinlein, &#8220;There is only one true sin, hurting someone else unnecessarily.  Everything else is invented nonsense.&#8221;  To that I add, to permit one small group to control the thoughts and actions of a large group.  </p>
<p>That last also seems to define the purpose behind religion, too.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SnugglyBuffalo</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-35418</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SnugglyBuffalo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-35418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think part of my confusion is that I try to avoid using &quot;objectivism&quot; because of Ayn Rand&#039;s philosophy by the same name. Realizing that&#039;s not what you&#039;re talking about, and doing a little more research on moral objectivism vs. moral absolutism, I see the point you were making.

Anyway, natural languages are inherently ambiguous. &quot;Absolute&quot; and &quot;objective&quot; can and are frequently used synonymously in common usage. You&#039;re right that &quot;moral objectivism&quot; and &quot;moral absolutism&quot; have very distinct definitions in philosophy; I doubt that people without a deep interest in philosophy are typically aware of this (I wasn&#039;t until I took the time to look these things up).

This is less a matter of sloppy language and poor word choice than it is one of unfamiliarity with precise philosophical definitions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think part of my confusion is that I try to avoid using &#8220;objectivism&#8221; because of Ayn Rand&#8217;s philosophy by the same name. Realizing that&#8217;s not what you&#8217;re talking about, and doing a little more research on moral objectivism vs. moral absolutism, I see the point you were making.</p>
<p>Anyway, natural languages are inherently ambiguous. &#8220;Absolute&#8221; and &#8220;objective&#8221; can and are frequently used synonymously in common usage. You&#8217;re right that &#8220;moral objectivism&#8221; and &#8220;moral absolutism&#8221; have very distinct definitions in philosophy; I doubt that people without a deep interest in philosophy are typically aware of this (I wasn&#8217;t until I took the time to look these things up).</p>
<p>This is less a matter of sloppy language and poor word choice than it is one of unfamiliarity with precise philosophical definitions.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-35405</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joshua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 03:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-35405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hmm, that paper sure looks like the first place I would check for sufficient and accurate informative information on the subject at hand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, that paper sure looks like the first place I would check for sufficient and accurate informative information on the subject at hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-35399</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 01:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-35399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, snugglybuffalo. You too are mistaken.

You are correct that objective morality means that morality is independent of judgments made by people (i.e. there &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a right thing to do in any given situation and it is our job to find out what that &quot;right&quot; thing is).

Equating &quot;absolute&quot; and &quot;objective&quot; however, is sloppy use of language. It might suffice in other spheres, but in philosophy, absolute morality is involved with universal principles that don&#039;t take situational factors into account (NEVER lie, kill cheat, etc.) while objective morality simply requires that &quot;good&quot; and &quot;bad&quot; exist as real values in the moral sphere. 

That&#039;s a huge difference--moral absolutism is absurd and nearly impossible to justify, while moral objectivism is accepted (with variances in form and degree) by the majority of contemporary philosophers.

Be careful with your words. For starters, check out section 1.6 here:
http://home.sprynet.com/~owl1/objectiv.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, snugglybuffalo. You too are mistaken.</p>
<p>You are correct that objective morality means that morality is independent of judgments made by people (i.e. there <i>is</i> a right thing to do in any given situation and it is our job to find out what that &#8220;right&#8221; thing is).</p>
<p>Equating &#8220;absolute&#8221; and &#8220;objective&#8221; however, is sloppy use of language. It might suffice in other spheres, but in philosophy, absolute morality is involved with universal principles that don&#8217;t take situational factors into account (NEVER lie, kill cheat, etc.) while objective morality simply requires that &#8220;good&#8221; and &#8220;bad&#8221; exist as real values in the moral sphere. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s a huge difference&#8211;moral absolutism is absurd and nearly impossible to justify, while moral objectivism is accepted (with variances in form and degree) by the majority of contemporary philosophers.</p>
<p>Be careful with your words. For starters, check out section 1.6 here:<br />
<a href="http://home.sprynet.com/~owl1/objectiv.htm" rel="nofollow">http://home.sprynet.com/~owl1/objectiv.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nickelplate</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-35390</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nickelplate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-35390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Assuming that morality IS absolute, there would most likely be areas to which only a god would have access. 

Also, cannibalism doesn&#039;t seem to be any kind of bad thing, even to christians. Most people would be grossed out by it, but as long as you&#039;re not killing people so you can eat them I would assume it&#039;s perfectly OK.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assuming that morality IS absolute, there would most likely be areas to which only a god would have access. </p>
<p>Also, cannibalism doesn&#8217;t seem to be any kind of bad thing, even to christians. Most people would be grossed out by it, but as long as you&#8217;re not killing people so you can eat them I would assume it&#8217;s perfectly OK.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-35389</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joshua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-35389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Satan’s sin was the one we all commit now and again: Thinking that we could be God.&lt;/em&gt;

I&#039;ve never met a person who thought he could be like god. I only meet people who tread upon the territory other humans say their god only has access to.

&quot;No, no, don&#039;t site there, that&#039;s god spot.&quot;

&quot;But there&#039;s nobody here?&quot;

&quot;I know, it only looks like god is not there, but he is. Don&#039;t sit there, sinner.&quot;

:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Satan’s sin was the one we all commit now and again: Thinking that we could be God.</em></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never met a person who thought he could be like god. I only meet people who tread upon the territory other humans say their god only has access to.</p>
<p>&#8220;No, no, don&#8217;t site there, that&#8217;s god spot.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;But there&#8217;s nobody here?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I know, it only looks like god is not there, but he is. Don&#8217;t sit there, sinner.&#8221;<br />
 <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: SnugglyBuffalo</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-35375</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SnugglyBuffalo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-35375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt, I think you&#039;re confusing Objectivism and objectivity.

Someone who believes in objective morality believes that morality is independent of any judgments made by people. &quot;Objective morality&quot; is more-or-less synonymous with &quot;absolute morality.&quot;

In other words, moral objectivity is not equivalent to moral Objectivism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I think you&#8217;re confusing Objectivism and objectivity.</p>
<p>Someone who believes in objective morality believes that morality is independent of any judgments made by people. &#8220;Objective morality&#8221; is more-or-less synonymous with &#8220;absolute morality.&#8221;</p>
<p>In other words, moral objectivity is not equivalent to moral Objectivism.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/04/26/the-illusion-of-moral-absolutes/#comment-35374</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=2753#comment-35374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[orDover:

&lt;i&gt;I wonder if people who believe in objective morality would find cannibalism immoral if it was the only way to sustain a population, if it was essential to the survival of human life?&lt;/i&gt;

You&#039;re still a little confused on your terms. I think you meant &quot;people who believe in &lt;i&gt;absolute&lt;/i&gt; morality&quot; not objective morality. A moral objectivist would simply hold that whatever is right for one person in that situation is right for anyone else in that situation (whether it&#039;s deemed right or wrong probably depends on more specific circumstances and a much better understanding of nutrition than I can offer). 

I think you meant to ask about a moral absolutist--whom you seem to assume would believe that cannibalism is absolutely wrong under any circumstance. 

Do you see the difference? It&#039;s important.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>orDover:</p>
<p><i>I wonder if people who believe in objective morality would find cannibalism immoral if it was the only way to sustain a population, if it was essential to the survival of human life?</i></p>
<p>You&#8217;re still a little confused on your terms. I think you meant &#8220;people who believe in <i>absolute</i> morality&#8221; not objective morality. A moral objectivist would simply hold that whatever is right for one person in that situation is right for anyone else in that situation (whether it&#8217;s deemed right or wrong probably depends on more specific circumstances and a much better understanding of nutrition than I can offer). </p>
<p>I think you meant to ask about a moral absolutist&#8211;whom you seem to assume would believe that cannibalism is absolutely wrong under any circumstance. </p>
<p>Do you see the difference? It&#8217;s important.</p>
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