Common Sense vs. Christian Perspectives #1

October 1, 2009 at 2:00 pm 44 comments

Christian Perspective:

“Despite our very best efforts, despite our tears and prayers, children can still rebel against God. As always our primary need is to turn to the Bible, which has the power to change lives.”link

Common Sense:

How can you know the Bible is powerful if it can’t even keep your kids from going to hell after having it crammed into their heads year after year for their entire childhood? That isn’t very powerful at all. Maybe the very fact that they can listen to the Bible for so long and never truly experience any power is good evidence to them that what you are teaching about the Bible’s power is bullshit.

In fact, if you cram Mein Kampf into a childs head for year after year it can make him or her turn into a Nazi! Wow, that is true power.

  1. Cram Mein Kampf: child will probably turn into a Nazi or socialist of some sort. Maybe he will be a liberal Nazi or maybe – horror! – he will reject Nazism altogether.
  2. Cram Bible: child will probably turn into a Christian of some sort. Maybe he will turn into a liberal Christian or maybe – horror! – he will reject Christianity altogether.

Wow, God’s power looks a lot like psychology, statistics, and brainwashing in action.

Conclusion: the Bible is no different in power than Mein Kampf.

Why not just say that people who believe things act on those beliefs? And if they do not believe they won’t act on it. And if they don’t believe them, maybe they have good reason to reject it. And you need to address those reasons, which means learning how to think properly by using reason on everything, not just teach them to use reason when it comes to everything except for the Bible. I mean, seriously, “think Biblically” basically means to use reason in every area of life except for things of faith. Your kids see this discrepancy and go “wow, you guys are hypocrites”.

Le duh,

- Josh

Entry filed under: Josh. Tags: .

seek and ye shall find…. but what? Christianity or Islam?

44 Comments Add your own

  • 1. atimetorend  |  October 1, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Evangelicalism’s belief in the magic power of words and in particular the bible is strange to me, even though I once believed the same thing. Closing prayers without the “in Jesus name” seems to rob them of some power, right? What’s that about? And for all the allegiance to the bible as not just a special set of teaching from God but as something that has “power” is interesting, because I haven’t often seen that power expressed in the way you describe, as a sociological phenomena. But then I wasn’t a liberal Christian, maybe they do see the power of God’s word as compatible with sociology.

  • 2. Florent  |  October 1, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    I’m curious to see the christian’s comments here : the parents of rebelious children were probably no REAL christians, otherwise, their offspring would’ve turned pastor of some sort…

  • 3. b_a_d_example  |  October 1, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    wow. was looking over at the right of this page at the de-conversion wager and everythin in that list is basically what Jesus was teaching.i’m wondering how many true atheist have actually sat down and read the bible. and i dont mean sat and read the parts some wolf in sheeps clothing has told you to read. i mean open the new testament with an open mind realizing that this book was writing by men.so is it 100 percent believable?my guess is some was adlibed.after all the writers were same as the rest of us. human.but if you hang in there and keep reading and test it at the parts where it says and in the ways it says. you’ll be surprised.then if you arent already a dad and you should become one.with that open mind you started reading with start living what your reading.when it talks about planting a seed. you dont cram the seed in. you place it.then depending on the soil it either grows or it doesnt.its about choice.then it talks about one true religion. and we look around at all the types there are now.well theres still only one true religion and thats your relationship with God. damn i should write a book huh? lol

  • 4. Joshua  |  October 1, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    May I refer you to the large exclamation point on the right hand side of the screen…

    I personally have read the entire Bible at least 9 times, in case you were wondering. Some books I have read 30+ times. It is not for lack of study…

  • 5. LeoPardus  |  October 1, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    b_a_d_example:

    The general view of Christians is that they don’t use their brains at all. Your rant with no capitalization, wrong spacing, incorrect use of punctuation, bad grammar, run on babble, and so forth certainly affirms that view. Clearly you didn’t use your brain in school.
    Actually I think you’re a good example.

    If you had looked at the BIG, RED EXCLAMATION MARK that says, “Attention Christian Readers” you might have saved yourself from posting your blatant ignorance.

    Oh and FYI, I’ve read the Bible numerous times. When I did so, I was a believer. I really thought it was the word of god. I lived it for 25 years.

  • 6. Ubi Dubium  |  October 1, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    Hoo boy, wonder if this is another drive-by. Just in case it isn’t – here we go again. Badexample, I’ve read the biible, cover-to-cover, twice, in two different translations. And not just the nicey-nice parts some “sheep in wolf’s clothing” pastor has told me to read, either. ALL OF IT. I was surprised indeed. It was contradictory, cruel, full of jealousy and violence, and did not line up with anything I saw in the world around me. And that’s one of the reasons I left religion. Most of the de-converts here have read it more thoroughly than I have, and seen it for what it is. A human book, written by men with political agendas. Nothing divine about it.

    Badexample, please read the posts linked to at the big red exclamation point to the right of your screen before you post again.

    Now back on topic. The comparison to Mein Kampf was very apt. My husband is reading Mein Kampf right now. Not because he expects to enjoy it, but for cultural literacy. We also watched Downfall a couple of nights ago, which is about the last days of Hitler and his staff in the bunker in Berlin. Something that struck me was how much like a religious cult they were, committing suicide and killing their own children rather than accept defeat. It put me in mind of Jonestown, Heaven’s Gate, and the brainwashed children of Jesus Camp.

  • 7. Brian  |  October 1, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    This exact mentality also cracks me up when Christians freak out over tolerance of homosexuality and “non-traditional” families in school. The idea that if the school tells them it’s okay, then they’ll take part in that lifestyle. Right because that’s how it works. Somebody hears something and immediately goes, “Oh, I must follow it.” That’s why everybody in the world went into geometry right? Oh wait, they didn’t? Oh, I guess it turns out everyone weighs what they like, believe and choose to follow against their own criteria.

  • 8. Brian  |  October 1, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    [THREADJACK] Ubi, I’ve heard all about Jesus Camp but never seen it. Is it worth watching or is it just an unceasing barage of people that even most Christians agree are a little too crazy? [/THREADJACK]

  • 9. Ubi Dubium  |  October 1, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    [threadjack response] I’ve seen parts of it, as much as I could stand. I have not been able to watch all the way through, it makes me too angry and queasy. I have children, you see, and seeing that kind of brainwashing done to ANY children is just emotionally unacceptable. [/threadjack response]

  • 10. Joshua  |  October 1, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    [THREADJACKAPPROVED /]

  • 11. Joe  |  October 1, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    Is a threadjack the same as a henweigh?

  • 12. LeoPardus  |  October 1, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    FWIW:

    I just finished reading Mein Kampf last month. It was actually a very interesting read. Combined with what I learned from some history and from reading “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” years ago, I feel that I really gained valuable insights from reading Mein Kampf.

    Also saw “Downfall” a few months ago. Very good movie. And if you haven’t seen “Valkyrie” I highly recommend it.

  • 13. anti_supernaturalist  |  October 1, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    we cannot afford to get the facts wrong

    The fundies are watching. If you’re going to make analogies (Nazism is like Christianism) or use terms like ’statistics’, be sure that you know what you’re talking about. That means doing research first. Check out your opinions — especially monitor a desire to say that ‘all Xs are Ys’ — ‘cause universals are easy to disprove and very hard to establish.

    1. what’s wrong with statistics? Of course you mean “there are lies, damn lies and statistics” supposedly a quote from Victorian Prime Minister Disraeli. Sure, some numbers are deliberate lies…

    However — a well-conducted survey (not available in Victorian England) can yield correct estimates of current beliefs or future actions. Check the web for Nate Silver, the guy behind an almost perfect call of the ’08 presidential race — consider his methodology. And, the Pew Memorial Trust produces very accurate surveys on the state of religion in the US. Potential ammo for you.

    2. Mein Kampf (My Struggle) — the last thing Herr Hitler wanted to do as he sat in jail in writing was to produce socialists — or communists.

    Socialism and Communism were (and I suppose still are) ideologies which seek international cooperation among workers who supposedly have a common class interest which transcends nationalism. Solidarity across borders was claimed to make warfare impossible. Didn’t stop the First World War (1914-1918). Socialism is usually called a left-wing or leftist ideology.

    Hitler deliberately called his party: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter-Partei — National Socialist German Workers Party. The name emphasizes that these German workers are nationalists and the benefits of its social programs are for “racially pure Aryans”. (Any resemblance to American “white power” ideology is deliberate.) National Socialism (Nat+Sozi = Nazozi = Nazi) is usally classed as a right-wing or fascist party.

    As you could guess — the US with its heedless nationalism, continual external warfare, spying on all citizens, corporate control of federal legislature, fundie and RC support of far-right political agendas — is much more likely to become a country like Argentina with very wide class divisions, a large uneducated poor population, a diminished middle class, and few very rich supporters of a military backed right-wing government.

    You might take another look at the movie “V” for what a right-wing Britain. Or, ‘The Handmaid’s Tale’ or ’1984′.

    Socialism, even a mild Euro version, stands no chance here as corporate funded opposition to universal health care by venial federal legislators demonstrates.

    the anti_supernaturalist

  • 14. Quester  |  October 1, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    Joe- Six pounds.

  • 15. Roy  |  October 2, 2009 at 8:32 am

    Comment #1:

    Evangelicalism’s belief in the magic power of words and in particular the bible is strange to me, even though I once believed the same thing. Closing prayers without the “in Jesus name” seems to rob them of some power, right? What’s that about?

    The Bible is not a magic book. There is no such thing.

    Jesus himself gave an example of how to pray and he said nothing about doing it is his name. That sort of turns it into a ridiculous child’s game like “Simon Says”. The prayer is invalid unless the magic words are said.

    There is a great deal about mainstream Christian beliefs that are patently absurd. Please don’t make the mistake of lumping all of us into that class. Mature Christians do exist. I once deconverted myself, and it led to my finding a much more rational and profound perspective on spiritual matters.

  • 16. Mystery Porcupine  |  October 2, 2009 at 11:15 am

    Roy, your approach truly baffles me! There are so many things I don’t understand about only being the Jesus that you like or agree with. Are you really being Jesus then, or are you just being a loving person? Why not use the example of many loving people, instead of just Jesus, to come to your understanding of the ideal way to be a loving person?

  • 17. Joshua  |  October 2, 2009 at 11:41 am

    I think Roy see Christianity more as art than math, more as music than vibrations of strings, more as conscious perspective than doctrinal leanings. Less about the hormones of love, and more about the qualia of love itself.

    In a sense, the experience itself – of being a Christian – becomes to Roy the ultimate truth, the freedom in its own way creates a sense of happiness and well-being which he believes he lacked after his initial de-conversion. Thus the quips about being a mature Christians now as opposed to the immature ones before.

    In a way, this is the finding of the pearl in the field that Jesus talked about… it is less about the object that is found than that an object of value and rarity is discovered.

    Roy, correct me if I am wrong.

  • 18. Roy  |  October 2, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    You have a way with words, Joshua.

    Mystery Porcupine,

    Forget Jesus if you want to. There have been many human beings who have come close to the ideal of God-consciousness if not reached it completely.

    I would highly recommend some of Tolstoy’s writing on the subject such as “The Kingdom of God is Within You”. Deepak Chopra, who came from a Hindu background has written some books about Jesus. I am currently reading his latest entitled “The Third Jesus: The Christ We Cannot Ignore”. Most “mainstream” Christians would surely consider me a heretic and my opinions blasphemous, but so what. We each are called to make sense of things for ourselves. That requires thought, which requires effort. Some find it easier to just follow a doctrine and a set of rules. I don’t.

  • 19. Joshua  |  October 2, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    we cannot afford to get the facts wrong

    And this is where – I think – the fatal flaw is made when dealing with fundamentalists. It is not about facts, it is about truth. Truth to a fundamentalist has a spiritual undertone to it, and is far less about getting your facts “straight” – unless it comes to their own personal claims. Then the facts are important… unless there is some deeper underlying truth being communicated – like the resurrection, for example. To them, the ether is more important than what composes the ether. Why? Because how God did it is far less important to them than that God did do it – if that makes sense. So when it comes to something like Hitler, they immediately think “Hitler is evil and influenced by Satan. Satan is amazing powerful but wicked. We can never get all the facts straight so it is just more important to recognize that Hitler was in league with demonic powers than to get the facts straight. So we need to teach our kids to think Biblically and to recognize men like Hitler as having demonic influences in their lives. That is what matters more than the facts.”

    Honestly, secularists just start to look stupid when they focus on the facts, because to a fundamentalist this just looks like a bunch of idiots analyzing grains of sand and forgetting the beach. I mean, its so obvious God created everything, so who gives a Balaam’s ass about how it was created? You fools! Trying to disprove the existence of the creator by staring closely at the Creation!

    You have to remember that for most Christians a simple allegory, analogy, or parable contains more truth than all the science textbooks combined. Hence my very carefully choosing the title “Common Sense vs…” instead of, say “Science vs…” or “Secular vs…” Since to most Christians wisdom is common sense (or that which is common sense among their social structure) and the “world” are those who ignore this intuition.

    I am just trying to point out that their own common sense technique backfires on itself. I’m not trying to be super detailed in my facts, because that is not the point at all.

  • 20. Joshua  |  October 2, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    You have a way with words, Joshua.

    Haha, Roy, you make sense to me.

  • 21. Joe  |  October 2, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Joe- Six pounds

    Quester-#14

    Couldn’t fool you huh? :>)

  • 22. Roy  |  October 2, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Joshua,

    According to Wikipedia:

    The English name Joshua is a rendering of the Hebrew: יהושע‎ “Yehoshua,” meaning “YHWH is Salvation,” “YHWH delivers,” or “YHWH rescues” from the Hebrew root ישע, “salvation,” “to deliver/be liberated,” or “to be victorious”[1]. It often lacks a Hebrew letter vav (ו) after the shin (ש), allowing a reading of the vocalization of the name as Hoshea (הוֹשֵׁעַ) – the name is described in the Torah as having been originally Hoshea before being changed to Yehoshua by Moses (Numbers 13:16).

    “Jesus” is the Anglicized transliteration of the Hellenized transliteration of “Yehoshua”. In the Septuagint, all instances of “Yehoshua” are rendered as “ιησου” (Iesou/Jesus), the closest Greek pronunciation of the Hebrew.[2][3]

    Happy Ghandi’s Birthday, Joshua!

    Namaste!

  • 23. mikespeir  |  October 2, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Wow, indeed, b_a_d_example. Some of us used to teach the Bible. Yes, I have read it–extensively. It’s my familiarity with it that finally turned me away from the Faith.

  • 24. OneSmallStep  |  October 3, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    **Despite our very best efforts, despite our tears and prayers, children can still rebel against God.**

    But I thought that God loved us so much that He gave us free will, because He doesn’t want puppets, He wants people to choose Him freely? Otherwise, it’s not love?

    So doesn’t this mean that if parents are applying their best efforts to get children to choose God, they are not in fact respecting the child’s free will?

    I realize that all parents will raise their child in accordance to their belief system and values, and in a lot of cases, you don’t respect a child’s free will if they’re going to do something dangerous. I just wish Christians would understand the discrepancy that a non-believer would see here.

  • 25. kramii  |  October 5, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    Josh is absolutely right. I have yet to read Mein Kampf, but I have read books that have opened my eyes and made me see life in a different way. These books certainly are not “magic”, but they do have a certain power in that my life has chaged as a result of reading them. In this sense, the power of any particular book depends on the extent that it concerns issues that are central to my world-view. For many Xians, then, the Bible actually *is* more powerful than other books, but only because that is what Xians choose to believe. I imagine that for Hitler buffs, Mein Kampf may serve a similar role.

  • 26. kathryn  |  October 9, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    i want to believe in god
    but i do feel soemwhat brainswashed
    i know there is a good god somewhere
    just not sure where right now
    but i totally get your line of thinking
    alot
    thank you so so much
    i used to sing all the songs
    hmm and thats not a form or brianwashing
    really
    i have thought about it

    i had to much religion
    and yeah as you said
    it was cramed down
    not voluntary
    it needed to have been voluntary
    not forced
    being forced
    to me
    is so innafective
    damaging
    and hurtful
    down the the metahphorical road in poeples lives

  • 27. Quester  |  October 10, 2009 at 2:20 am

    Kathryn,

    I’d also like to believe in a good god somewhere. I used to.

  • 28. George  |  October 10, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    For many Xians, then, the Bible actually *is* more powerful than other books, but only because that is what Xians choose to believe. I imagine that for Hitler buffs, Mein Kampf may serve a similar role.
    KRAMII…………….as my sixteen year old daughter woudl say. “ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW?????

    You want to compare the Bible, even in the most minute sense, to Mein Kampf?

    Is it really that hard to see evil? Is it not obvious that this world is so out of balance that man will destroy himself, and the enviornment. Yes, the Bible states that if Christ does not return that NO FLESH will be saved. PERIOD.

    To ONE SMALL STEP

    The parents of Christian children understand the consequences, number one. If God did not exist, the tenants of the Bible would still lead to a good life.

    A life of respect for others, husbands and wives respecting each other as equals. As in all life, there is a leader, the husband is the head of the wife, the Bible states. The husband makes the final decision in matters where things could go either way, but only after fully respecting the wife’s input. A wise man listens and respects his wife, and often times will defer to her.
    Why mention this? There is order in the Bible, from cover to cover.

    “A man and a women shall leave their father and mother, join themselves together, and the two shall become one flesh,” states scripture.

    There is safety there. Home, where a child sees the father respecting his wife. Where, because of unconditional love, the child can make major departures from what the parent would like to see in conduct, or decisions, and still be respected.

    A virgin male, and a virgin female have sexual intercourse for the first time after commiting themselves to each other, till death do they part. That is the senario that the Bible puts forth.

    This was to be passed from generation to generation. The two become one flesh through the first sexual contact in the purpose of God.

    Now, this is the reason the Bible states, “God hates divorce.” It is a blight on any society, nation.

    Abortion, homosexuality, divorce and an extensive list of other situation rear their head because of divorce, sex outside of the marriage committment.

    I am addressing this becaues of the music videos, most sexual, misrepresenting what Love is, making a mockery of sexual relationships.

    Sin, a misunderstood word. Sin is taking what God has stated, turning it into what was not intended.

    We all know what lying is, murder, adultry, fornication.

    No wife, husband, child comes in the door and referes to the great sex they had at the office today, or out on a date telling mom and dad that they used their free will.

    Free will, yes. The Bible agrees, “Sin has its pleasure for a season.” Then comes the destruction.

    The moral code has been written in man, states the Bible, so none will stand before him faultless. And you will stand, by yourself, and give an account. You will not be able to avoid it.

    If you are confused by the reality of the Bible, so be it.

    You do not want to see the reality of where the world is headed regarding Israel, so be it.

    If you do not see the world heading for global unification, so be it.

    But, the price that will be extracted is far different than what you will have ever imagined. The Bible states it clearly, “There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end are the ways of death.” Not just physical death, which comes to all, but more importantly, spiritual death.

    You have the free will to deny that the ONLY way to God in through the cross of Jesus Christ. Or that this God even exists. Free will, it is free for now.

  • 29. Joshua  |  October 11, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    If you are confused by the reality of the Bible, so be it.

    You do not want to see the reality of where the world is headed regarding Israel, so be it.

    If you do not see the world heading for global unification, so be it.

    George, if you are trying desperately to show something to someone and they don’t see it, rather than arrogantly asserting that they are the one at fault, maybe you should just admit nothing is there.

    You are like the nerdy guy in high-school who cannot fathom why everyone else cannot “see” that the hot cheerleader is in love with him. You are so convinced no evidence will change your mind, even if you were slapped by the cheerleader Herself.

  • 30. Ubi Dubium  |  October 11, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Josh, I love the way you capitalized “Herself”. From my high school experience of not being a cheerleader, I can quite see cheerleaders considering themselves goddesses.

    Yes, George, comparing the bible to Mein Kampf is appropriate. Both books have been used by people trying to brainwash other people into blindly following their ideology. The brainwashing has apparently been effective on you. You’ve been convinced that a bronze-age book of legends, superstition and political spin somehow holds the Truth(TM) of the universe. Please quit preaching at us.

  • 31. George  |  October 11, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Joshua,
    Your cheerleader analogy is retarded, as are many of your other comparisons. My gosh, Josh. Is that the best you can do? You need a new writer.
    Seriously, Joshua, there is no arrogance intended. Just because I am taken back on people’s inability to realize the truth of the Bible, as far as the message of Jesus Christ from the fundamental Christian truth. Jesus Christ came to die for the sin of mankind.

    By the way, I have never been slapped by a cheerleader.

  • 32. George  |  October 11, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Joshua,
    Your cheerleader analogy is retarded, as are many of your other comparisons. My gosh, Josh. Is that the best you can do? You need a new writer.
    Seriously, Joshua, there is no arrogance intended. Just because I am taken back on people’s inability to realize the truth of the Bible, as far as the message of Jesus Christ from the fundamental Christian truth. Jesus Christ came to die for the sin of mankind.

    By the way, I have never been slapped by a cheerleader. But, I enjoyed two of my daughters that did cheer, mainly gymnastics. Nothing wrong with it.

    Josh, were you the nerd you are talking about?

    My bet is that you were, still feeling the wounds?

  • 33. Joshua  |  October 11, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    You need a new writer.

    Are you calling me a kettle?

    My bet is that you were, still feeling the wounds?

    The irony being you call me a pot.

  • 34. Joshua  |  October 11, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    A few contextually and conversationally relevant quotes, if I may:

    “A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.”

    “Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both.”

    “A rebuke impresses a man of discernment more than a hundred lashes a fool.”

    “As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.”

    And c’mon George, even if you think I am headed for destruction I would hope you can appreciate my wit anyway. I do apologize that it has to be at your expense, although you do ask for it.

  • 35. George  |  October 11, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    Ubi, Joshua, Roy and whoever else……………..

    Preaching or warning, either way. Should not bother you at all.

    How can a lie, or an untruth bother you. Just ignore it. Let it irratate you, give some slack.

    I enjoy the fact that you are grouped with the “most intelligent” of the planet, scientists. Time will tell, will it not? By the way, there are many scientists who believe in IT.

    By the way, the majority, especially in this case, is usually wrong. Belief, or lack thereof has consequences, just as elections do. The majority missed it on this one also.

    Hope you find the truth, as Jesus stated, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes unto God but by me.”

    Through the cross. You will deal with the reality of this, like it or not.

    Still, you will see your world of “there is no god” crumble into pieces.

    And you are right, there is no changing my mind. Why should I.

    History is on my side, archeology is on my side, prophecy is on my side, current events are on my side. The events regarding Israel is on my side. You should hope I am right, and you are wrong. Why would it not be better to know that there is a God who would go to the lengths to make himself known to man.

    I am telling you, you are in the last times. Just as there was a generation alive when Christ came, we are the generation to see His return.

    Signs were given for the time of his birth and death. Prophecy was given for this generation.

    If there is this God of the Bible, there is also the demonic side, which I believe to be reality. Satan is real, Jesus called him the god of this age.

    Mark of the Beast, 666 and all the warnings, ignore to your own peril.

    Since you do not understand the fallen nature of man, or even believe it to be an issue, you are refusing the obvious. You do not see the need for redemption. God using Israel to be his calendar for man, and what the Bible clearly calls, “The End of The Age.”

    Mankind is swiftly moving toward the events of the end of the age.

    Man has never built weapons he has not used. The demonic nature of the coming conflicts will not be stopped. Stay blinded to the truth of the conflict of Islam and Judaism.
    The Bible clearly states Israel and the Arab states will bring on the final wars of man. The nations of Europe, China, Russia are all major players.

    Israel back in the land she was promised, and the world saying you have to give it up for peace. Land for peace, what a joke.

    These events are recorded as prophecy in the Old and New Testament. Deny their validity all you wish. You will not change what is happening now, nor the events to come.

    Jerusalem is Israel’s capitol. King David purchased this land before any Arab set foot on it. Now, today they want to claim it even though the Koran lays no claim to it. The Temple Mount will be the discussion of this age,and the City of Jerusalem. Over and over, you are going to hear this.

    Finally the UN, along with all nations are going to try to impose a plan on Israel. Since you do not believe the Bible, you will just have to wait for what the results are.

    Obama, and all like him, are right on time. Oprah and Obama, many ways to god theology. Right on time.

    There are exciting times ahead, but also tragic. Death is complete in every generation, but this one is going to become fast tracked. The comiing events will be horrific.

  • 36. Roy  |  October 11, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    George,

    Preaching or warning, either way. Should not bother you at all.

    And it doesn’t George, but your negativity does. I am henceforth, hereafter, and forevermore tuning you out. I’ve got better things to do.

  • 37. Lucian  |  October 18, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    Hey, Josh,

    weren’t You the one to show me that science-video about the uselessness and even wrongfulness of the so-called common-sense? (“the sum of all of man’s prejudices”) 8) — See how very conveniently You choose to contradict Yourself?

  • 38. Joshua  |  October 18, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Lucian,

    I’m basically taking the Christian perspective and turning it on itself by showing that common sense is relative to the individual. So “common sense” cannot be used to argue anything. At least that is what I thought I was communicating :)

    However, in the process I am presenting this argument:

    P1: Ideas have the power to change minds, regardless of their origin.
    P2: The Bible has the power to change minds, because it contains ideas.
    P3: Mein Kampf has the power to change minds, because it contains ideas.

    Q: How is the Bible different than Mein Kampf, if used to brainwash children?

  • 39. Joshua  |  October 18, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    All that to say, I think you spotted a problem with my title :) You sortof caught me red handed… I said “common sense” more or less as a marketing tactic… I knew if I said “Skeptical Thought” or “Logic” I would get different responses. So I chose “Common Sense” because I wanted to show that, to me, all of this now seems like common sense. Even though, to a Christian parent, it probably is not very “common”. After all, if it was common sense fewer would teach their kids this way!

    Goodness, I could tell you pretty scary stories about homeschool families I’ve known and the way they teach their kids…

    How you been man? It’s been a while since I’ve seen you around.

  • 40. Lucian  |  October 18, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    So You were only fighting fire with fire. (I’ve been the same as usual; unchanging, if You will).

  • 41. Zehra  |  March 11, 2014 at 7:14 am

    Hello Youtube,Everyone who is reading this comnmet, please click on my username for my videos I made about the The Truth of the World. I have found out what the truth of life is, the truth of the world, and the truth of God. Please, I really want people to watch and listen what I have to say. No more living in false reality, no more living in illusions, no more thinking there is no way out its time to lead your life into The Truth of the World!!!!!!!!! I love our Lord!!! God bless!!

  • 42. cag  |  March 11, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    Zehra, spread your lies and delusions somewhere else. This site is for those who do not buy the lies of religion. We reject thousands of gods including yours.

  • 43. Alban  |  March 12, 2014 at 3:05 am

    Maybe the language barrier, but I’m not sure it’s the classic God(s). It is definitely some kind of inspiration she is tying into a concept of God. Listening with your heart is important is important in this kind of investigation. Then compare. Prejudging is not usually accurate in this arena…lot of dragons on her facebook…what do they symbolize for her? Maybe she will return and explain…

  • 44. Alban  |  March 12, 2014 at 3:41 am

    George, it’s a lot simpler to understand than the cross if you are still tuning in. And now that cross further creates confusion. Thanks to Christianity in its marching step to the basis of catholicism, we obliterate the message of possibility to know what is truly timeless, and to realize a different kind of common sense that originates in that knowledge.

    Humpty Dumpty is being put back together. It has been an extensive project, but it is much different to what you have been indoctrinated.

    What you have been indoctrinated into, the atheists are correct about. But lets drop the sticks and stones. Isn’t it about time?

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Attention Christian Readers

Just in case you were wondering who we are and why we de-converted.

de-conversion wager

Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will have made a positive impact on those around you. If there is a benevolent God reviewing your life, you will be judged on your actions and not just on your ability to blindly believe in creeds- when there is a significant lack of evidence on how to define God or if he/she even exists.

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