Whacked Bible Contradictions: 3

November 2, 2009 at 7:23 pm 19 comments

There seems to be some confusion among the divinely inspired authors of the Bible. Maybe God can’t remember exactly who he met face to face, and who he didn’t, and who he killed.  I know I have trouble keeping those things sorted out sometimes.

Has anyone seen God face to face?
Yes.
Genesis 32:30 — “Jacob said, ‘I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'”
Exodus 33:11 –“The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.”
No
Exodus 33:20 — “You cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
John 1:18 — “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.”
I John 4:12 — “No man hath seen God at any time.”

Another element of divine confusion seems to be the classic “I love them all”, “I love them all not” dilemma. Perhaps one can imagine the deity plucking petals off one of heaven’s daisies.
I want them all saved
1 Timothy 2:3-4 — “God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved.”
2 Peter 3:9 — “The Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I want them damned
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 — “God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

That last one leads us to wonder:
Does God lie?
Of course not
Numbers 23:19 — “God is not a man, that he should lie.”
1 Samuel 15:29 — “He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man.”
Titus 1:2 — “The hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time.”
Hebrews 6:18 — “It is impossible for God to lie.”
But on the other hand
Jeremiah 4:10 — “Sovereign LORD, how completely you have deceived this people.”
Jeremiah 20:7 — “O LORD, you deceived me, and I was deceived.”
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 –“God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.”

Man that last one is nasty. First he creates them; then he sets up standards; then he MAKES THEM fail those standards; then he condemns them to eternal torment.  If that isn’t the ultimate ‘kid frying ants with a magnifying glass’….

- LeoPardus

Entry filed under: LeoPardus. Tags: , , .

The myth of the virgin birth of Jesus Whacked Bible Contradictions: 4

19 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Lucian  |  November 2, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    #1 God was never seen by anyone, as St John tells us in his Gospel. But the Word revealed him to us, both in the Old Testament (‘the Angel of the Lord’), as well as in the New (‘Jesus Christ’).

    #2 and #3 are because of the corrupt state and predisposition of the people unworthy of God, yet to whom He revealed Himself nonetheless, out of love, as He informs us in the Bible.

  • 2. Shadowfx  |  November 2, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    Leo,

    My wife and I were having a talk this evening as we went for a walk. We were talking about how the bible has so many contradictions that you can make it say so many things. And we decided that, as an evolutionary element, this helps it to survive. Because people can get what they want out of it, but continue to argue over it. If it were all plain and simple, it could get pigeon holed and never survive all the questioning it would be likely to get.

  • 3. Joshua  |  November 3, 2009 at 10:00 am

    Leo, we just have trust that the Lord is in control… it may appear to our feeble minds that He is deceptive, but we know that it is Satan who is the great deceiver and

    BWAHHAHAHAH!

    Who the hell is His Glorious Bipolarness kidding?

  • 4. Joshua  |  November 3, 2009 at 10:01 am

    #2 and #3 are because of the corrupt state and predisposition of the people unworthy of God, yet to whom He revealed Himself nonetheless, out of love, as He informs us in the Bible.

    Sorry Lucian, this does not compute.

  • 5. LeoPardus  |  November 3, 2009 at 11:47 am

    Re #4… very little that Lucian says computes. There’s some organic disorder there; or drugs; or both.

  • 6. Joshua  |  November 3, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    There’s some organic disorder there; or drugs; or both.

    Hey now, you always complain it took you so long to leave the faith… I’m glad no one lumped you into a particular disorder category during the interim.

  • 7. LeoPardus  |  November 3, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    I’m glad no one lumped you into a particular disorder category

    Would’ve fit too many.
    Drugs – check
    Organic slowness – check
    Ingrained stupidity – check
    Cranial-rectal inversion – check

  • 8. Jeffrey  |  November 3, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    >Has anyone seen God face to face?

    I remember having this discussion with a Christian roommate in college. I was very sure the answer was yes – he was very sure the answer was no. We both found our verses and there was an awkward, “Oh.”

    We both grew up fundamentalists – I went on to be an atheist, while he has gone on to be a Christian who views the Bible’s inspiration as comparable to the sense in which God inspired C. S. Lewis to write.

  • 9. Lucian  |  November 4, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    Leo,

    it would be more helpful perhaps if You’d be able to articulate what exactly You don’t grasp or understand, than just observing that You don’t.

    #1 God (the Father) was never seen by anyone, ever: it is the Son that is the subject of the OT theophanies.

    #2 and #3: the deceiving was a result of man’s fallen state, and of his estrangement from God; saintly men and women never had a problem with misreading His message.

  • 10. Quester  |  November 5, 2009 at 2:14 am

    Shadow @ #2

    You make a good argument for the Bible as a successful meme, which I doubt anyone here would disagree with. Longevity is one virtue the Bible definitely has had, if in some ways like the legendary axe of George Washington- with its eight new handles and three new heads.

  • 11. HeIsSailing  |  November 5, 2009 at 2:18 am

    Lucian, please read the following passage from Exodus 33:

    7Now Moses used to take the tent and pitch it outside the camp, a good distance from the camp, and he called it the tent of meeting And everyone who sought the LORD would go out to the tent of meeting which was outside the camp.

    8And it came about, whenever Moses went out to the tent, that all the people would arise and stand, each at the entrance of his tent, and gaze after Moses until he entered the tent.

    9Whenever Moses entered the tent, the pillar of cloud would descend and stand at the entrance of the tent; and the LORD would speak with Moses.

    10When all the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance of the tent, all the people would arise and worship, each at the entrance of his tent.

    11Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend When Moses returned to the camp, his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.

    You are claiming that “it is the Son that is the subject of the OT theophanies”. Exactly what in the above passage determines that LORD, or YHWH, is in fact actually the 2nd person of the Trinity? What methodology are you using to conclude that in Exodus 33:7-11, YHWH is not actually YHWH as the text says, but rather ‘the Son’?

    Now read this passage, which follows after:

    12Then Moses said to the LORD, “See, You say to me, ‘Bring up this people!’ But You Yourself have not let me know whom You will send with me Moreover, You have said, ‘I have known you by name, and you have also found favor in My sight.’

    13″Now therefore, I pray You, if I have found favor in Your sight, let me know Your ways that I may know You, so that I may find favor in Your sight Consider too, that this nation is Your people.”

    14And He said, “My presence shall go with you, and I will give you rest.”

    15Then he said to Him, “If Your presence does not go with us, do not lead us up from here.

    16″For how then can it be known that I have found favor in Your sight, I and Your people? Is it not by Your going with us, so that we, I and Your people, may be distinguished from all the other people who are upon the face of the earth?”

    17The LORD said to Moses, “I will also do this thing of which you have spoken; for you have found favor in My sight and I have known you by name.”

    18Then Moses said, “I pray You, show me Your glory!”

    19And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”

    20But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”

    Please tell me what it is in this passage that tips you off that in this case LORD (or YWHW – the same name in both passages) is not the Son, in complete contradistiction to the first passage, but now the Father? What methodolgy are you using to determine that the second passage refers to Father, and the first passage refers to the Son? How do you determine when and how the identical name for God refers to which of two seperate persons?

  • 12. LeoPardus  |  November 5, 2009 at 6:20 am

    Prediction: He won’t have any trouble explaining post #11 from HIS. The explanation will make no bloody sense, but will be completely satisfactory to the explainer; and that’s the only thing that really maters to the presupposer.

  • 13. Lucian  |  November 5, 2009 at 11:48 am

    HelsSailing,

    LeoPardus, our atheist prophet here, rightly and accurately predicted that the explanation I’m going to offer will make no bloody sense to you, a Protestant, but only for me, the Orthodox explainer: but here it goes, anyway:

    This is what the Christian Church has always believed, from its very beginning. (I also agree that this is much more of a statement than an actual explanation). If by any chance You’re curious or interested, and wish to know or find out more about this, here is a good place to start searching.

  • 14. HeIsSailing  |  November 5, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Lucian,
    on the contrary – your reasoning makes perfect sense to me.

  • 15. HeIsSailing  |  November 5, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    Wow, I blew that one, didn’t I??

    Lucian’s methodolgy:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

  • 16. Lucian  |  November 5, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    There are indeed a great many similarities between us, that’s true.

  • 17. HeIsSailing  |  November 5, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    ? Not sure I know what you mean. You like old musicals too?

  • 18. LeoPardus  |  November 5, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Nah. He meant between the EOC and orthodox Jews. They are a lot alike.

  • 19. the chaplain  |  November 5, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Cranial-rectal inversion

    Ooh. That sounds so much more painful than it felt at the time.

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