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	<title>Comments on: An Epilogue</title>
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	<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/</link>
	<description>Resources for skeptical, de-converting, or former Christians......</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Quester</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40577</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 04:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the appreciation, Zoe. I hope you&#039;re doing well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the appreciation, Zoe. I hope you&#8217;re doing well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Zoe</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40568</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quester:  &quot;I just stopped pretending.&quot;  

Zoe:  Amen.

:-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quester:  &#8220;I just stopped pretending.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Zoe:  Amen.<br />
 <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Grace</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40567</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Grace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, Quester. Peace back atcha! :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Quester. Peace back atcha! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quester</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank-you, Grace.

There&#039;s not much I can say in response to how you interpret your personal experiences, except that I once interpreted my life experiences rather similarly.

Instead, I&#039;m going to focus on your first and final paragraphs.

&lt;i&gt;I would not accept something if I felt it was a lie simply to gain some feeling of value. It wouldn’t be real, and would seem useless to me.&lt;/i&gt;

I hope you will accept that I, in a like manner, would not deny something I had any reason to think was real, simply because it caused me to lose some feeling of value. I would be purposefully deluding myself, which I&#039;m not really very good at. I just can&#039;t seem to shut off my thoughts.

&lt;i&gt;I don’t think anyone who has truly had their life hidden in Christ with God, being “born from above,: knowing HIm, is going to forever, and permanently walk away.

They simply can’t. &lt;/i&gt;

If there is a God, a Christ, that is true. It is also true that I have not walked away. I just stopped pretending. If there is a God, a Christ, then I am open to seeing evidence for such, and responding appropriately. If that happens after I die, well, that&#039;s still less time than forever, and thus you would still be correct.

On the other hand, I don&#039;t think that anyone who looks at creation, different worldviews and various &quot;holy scriptures&quot; of different religions can honestly say that there is enough evidence to say anything about God: not God&#039;s character, attributes, number, power, will, nor existence, beyond personal desire to describe God in one way or another. 

There just isn&#039;t.

Now, this is no reason to walk away, but provides no direction to walk toward, or even with. So all we can do is keep our eyes and mind open, and live as best we can.

It&#039;s always a pleasure talking with you, Grace.

Peace be with you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank-you, Grace.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s not much I can say in response to how you interpret your personal experiences, except that I once interpreted my life experiences rather similarly.</p>
<p>Instead, I&#8217;m going to focus on your first and final paragraphs.</p>
<p><i>I would not accept something if I felt it was a lie simply to gain some feeling of value. It wouldn’t be real, and would seem useless to me.</i></p>
<p>I hope you will accept that I, in a like manner, would not deny something I had any reason to think was real, simply because it caused me to lose some feeling of value. I would be purposefully deluding myself, which I&#8217;m not really very good at. I just can&#8217;t seem to shut off my thoughts.</p>
<p><i>I don’t think anyone who has truly had their life hidden in Christ with God, being “born from above,: knowing HIm, is going to forever, and permanently walk away.</p>
<p>They simply can’t. </i></p>
<p>If there is a God, a Christ, that is true. It is also true that I have not walked away. I just stopped pretending. If there is a God, a Christ, then I am open to seeing evidence for such, and responding appropriately. If that happens after I die, well, that&#8217;s still less time than forever, and thus you would still be correct.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I don&#8217;t think that anyone who looks at creation, different worldviews and various &#8220;holy scriptures&#8221; of different religions can honestly say that there is enough evidence to say anything about God: not God&#8217;s character, attributes, number, power, will, nor existence, beyond personal desire to describe God in one way or another. </p>
<p>There just isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Now, this is no reason to walk away, but provides no direction to walk toward, or even with. So all we can do is keep our eyes and mind open, and live as best we can.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s always a pleasure talking with you, Grace.</p>
<p>Peace be with you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Grace</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Grace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, Quester, I would not accept something if I felt it was a lie simply to gain some feeling of value. It wouldn&#039;t be real, and would seem useless to me.

I came to faith as a young person. What first drew me to think deeply that there was something or someone greater than myself was the reality of creation. I was very much into astronomy, and science at the time.

Instinctively knew that the universe could not have made itself, that we were not here by mere chance, and randomness.

I accepted the witness of the Christian faith after much searching. Suppose that I could not condense this down into a blog post.

But, it seemed to me that if God made the entire universe, and everything in it,  and realizing  this desire in myself to know Him, to search for truth,  that perhaps this didn&#039;t come out of my own head..

The witness of Jesus Christ, and the resurrection began to make sense to  me. Again, could go into much detail about this, but, in a nutshell,  I didn&#039;t feel that the apostolic witness could be so easily explained away, naturalistic bias, aside.

As an older Christian believer, I can see many ways in my life now, how my faith has enhanced my life, sense of value, and purpose. 

I faced possible death once, and God&#039;s love was very real,  saw first hand how  the hope of the resurrection is no small thing. 

Quester, I&#039;ll be honest, even though it may cause offense. 

 I think many, many people are simply culturally conditioned into a specific religion. They were just reared this way,  have never before questioned anything, maybe have had some kind of mystical experience. .. as a young person.

But, I don&#039;t think anyone who has truly had their life hidden in Christ with God, being &quot;born from above,:  knowing HIm, is going to forever, and permanently walk away.

 They simply can&#039;t.  

Give you the last word, friend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Quester, I would not accept something if I felt it was a lie simply to gain some feeling of value. It wouldn&#8217;t be real, and would seem useless to me.</p>
<p>I came to faith as a young person. What first drew me to think deeply that there was something or someone greater than myself was the reality of creation. I was very much into astronomy, and science at the time.</p>
<p>Instinctively knew that the universe could not have made itself, that we were not here by mere chance, and randomness.</p>
<p>I accepted the witness of the Christian faith after much searching. Suppose that I could not condense this down into a blog post.</p>
<p>But, it seemed to me that if God made the entire universe, and everything in it,  and realizing  this desire in myself to know Him, to search for truth,  that perhaps this didn&#8217;t come out of my own head..</p>
<p>The witness of Jesus Christ, and the resurrection began to make sense to  me. Again, could go into much detail about this, but, in a nutshell,  I didn&#8217;t feel that the apostolic witness could be so easily explained away, naturalistic bias, aside.</p>
<p>As an older Christian believer, I can see many ways in my life now, how my faith has enhanced my life, sense of value, and purpose. </p>
<p>I faced possible death once, and God&#8217;s love was very real,  saw first hand how  the hope of the resurrection is no small thing. </p>
<p>Quester, I&#8217;ll be honest, even though it may cause offense. </p>
<p> I think many, many people are simply culturally conditioned into a specific religion. They were just reared this way,  have never before questioned anything, maybe have had some kind of mystical experience. .. as a young person.</p>
<p>But, I don&#8217;t think anyone who has truly had their life hidden in Christ with God, being &#8220;born from above,:  knowing HIm, is going to forever, and permanently walk away.</p>
<p> They simply can&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>Give you the last word, friend.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zoe</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40553</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 14:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40553</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quester # 36...just want to say, great comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quester # 36&#8230;just want to say, great comment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quester</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40548</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40548</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Grace,

My questions: Who is God? What does God want of me?

Differing interpretations/discrepencies in scripture and creation: These make it impossible for me to answer my questions,

With a faith that led to a low self-image, I had to trust entirely in God, base my worth in His grace, and was pathetically grateful for every small blessing in my life. If I had at any point felt that God was destroying me, and that I had no reason to trust in Him, I might have rose up against Him, but I would not have stopped believing. If I had felt that my faith led me to a greater joy (which I did- I never considered my self-loathing to be a bad thing. I found great joy that God could love such a wretched sinner as myself), I don&#039;t see how this would remove the contradictions inherent in the Bible, or bring a cease to the suffering in the world that is not caused by the results of our own free will.

No. My lack of faith is not the result of any pain, sorrow, depression or other emotion. Nor is it really an opinion in any way. It is simply my coming to grips with the complete and utter lack of a coherent or consistent revelation of God&#039;s character, will or existence in creation or scripture. For me to believe in a god, I would have to create one. I can&#039;t find any to put my faith in.

Now, let me turn your question back to you: why have you chosen to believe in a particular, Christian interpretation of a loving Creator? Is it just because it gives you a feeling of self-worth and value to believe that there is an almighty and powerful deity who can do anything but has chosen to love you as a being with individual worth, make a plan for your life, and interest Himself in your thoughts and feelings?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grace,</p>
<p>My questions: Who is God? What does God want of me?</p>
<p>Differing interpretations/discrepencies in scripture and creation: These make it impossible for me to answer my questions,</p>
<p>With a faith that led to a low self-image, I had to trust entirely in God, base my worth in His grace, and was pathetically grateful for every small blessing in my life. If I had at any point felt that God was destroying me, and that I had no reason to trust in Him, I might have rose up against Him, but I would not have stopped believing. If I had felt that my faith led me to a greater joy (which I did- I never considered my self-loathing to be a bad thing. I found great joy that God could love such a wretched sinner as myself), I don&#8217;t see how this would remove the contradictions inherent in the Bible, or bring a cease to the suffering in the world that is not caused by the results of our own free will.</p>
<p>No. My lack of faith is not the result of any pain, sorrow, depression or other emotion. Nor is it really an opinion in any way. It is simply my coming to grips with the complete and utter lack of a coherent or consistent revelation of God&#8217;s character, will or existence in creation or scripture. For me to believe in a god, I would have to create one. I can&#8217;t find any to put my faith in.</p>
<p>Now, let me turn your question back to you: why have you chosen to believe in a particular, Christian interpretation of a loving Creator? Is it just because it gives you a feeling of self-worth and value to believe that there is an almighty and powerful deity who can do anything but has chosen to love you as a being with individual worth, make a plan for your life, and interest Himself in your thoughts and feelings?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Grace</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Grace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 01:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quester,

What I mean is this. If through your faith you had not found this bondage, feeling of worthlessness which led to deep depression, might you have taken ahold of your questions, views of  differing interpretations, discrepencies in Scripture, etc. everything that we&#039;ve talked about very differently?

If your faith seemed to be  destroying you, how could you have come to any different opinions? At least, it seems unlikely to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quester,</p>
<p>What I mean is this. If through your faith you had not found this bondage, feeling of worthlessness which led to deep depression, might you have taken ahold of your questions, views of  differing interpretations, discrepencies in Scripture, etc. everything that we&#8217;ve talked about very differently?</p>
<p>If your faith seemed to be  destroying you, how could you have come to any different opinions? At least, it seems unlikely to me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eupraxsophy</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40532</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eupraxsophy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 12:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I was a Christian I felt that it wasn&#039;t my place to question God, but rather to know that I was forgiven and given a new life in order to follow Jesus.  When faced with what might seem true,
if it contradicted the Bible then it must not be true and I should have faith in that God works in mysterious ways and his way is the best for all and that we can not possible understand his ways. 

To Christians the Bible is the Word of God and the Truth.  But how do they KNOW it&#039;s the Truth and The Word of God as opposed to believing it&#039;s the Truth and The Word of God?

How is it God wants vengence as opposed to true justice?
True justice is not in lieu of responsibility, but rather it is being
responsible to all truths that apply to all who are responsible.
Vengence satifies only irresponsibility and pride where as true
justice satifies truth and responsibility. It satifies all who are 
responsible.  I might be responsible for sin, but I am not 
responsible for creating it nor am I responsible for my own existance.  Why does God want us to forgive our enemies when
he can&#039;t even forgive his own?  Because Satan insulted his pride?

Humility and truth are two of my moral values.   The two are 
relevant to each other.  Truth has no weakness and integrity is 
it&#039;s strength.  And the destination of wisdom and the enlightement 
of truth is traveled down the path of humility.

In order for anyone to be able to move on with their lives one must face the truth, accept the truth, and respect it for what it 
is.   Instead of having pride in a god, have pride in what you have
accomplished and do for others to give your life meaning and purpose so that you can have self worth as opposed to selfish worth.  Open your mind to truth so that you can be wise and open your heart to humility so that you can show compassion and respect truth for what it is.  Humility gives one the wisdom to see both the ugliness and beauty that resides in the truths about ourselves and others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a Christian I felt that it wasn&#8217;t my place to question God, but rather to know that I was forgiven and given a new life in order to follow Jesus.  When faced with what might seem true,<br />
if it contradicted the Bible then it must not be true and I should have faith in that God works in mysterious ways and his way is the best for all and that we can not possible understand his ways. </p>
<p>To Christians the Bible is the Word of God and the Truth.  But how do they KNOW it&#8217;s the Truth and The Word of God as opposed to believing it&#8217;s the Truth and The Word of God?</p>
<p>How is it God wants vengence as opposed to true justice?<br />
True justice is not in lieu of responsibility, but rather it is being<br />
responsible to all truths that apply to all who are responsible.<br />
Vengence satifies only irresponsibility and pride where as true<br />
justice satifies truth and responsibility. It satifies all who are<br />
responsible.  I might be responsible for sin, but I am not<br />
responsible for creating it nor am I responsible for my own existance.  Why does God want us to forgive our enemies when<br />
he can&#8217;t even forgive his own?  Because Satan insulted his pride?</p>
<p>Humility and truth are two of my moral values.   The two are<br />
relevant to each other.  Truth has no weakness and integrity is<br />
it&#8217;s strength.  And the destination of wisdom and the enlightement<br />
of truth is traveled down the path of humility.</p>
<p>In order for anyone to be able to move on with their lives one must face the truth, accept the truth, and respect it for what it<br />
is.   Instead of having pride in a god, have pride in what you have<br />
accomplished and do for others to give your life meaning and purpose so that you can have self worth as opposed to selfish worth.  Open your mind to truth so that you can be wise and open your heart to humility so that you can show compassion and respect truth for what it is.  Humility gives one the wisdom to see both the ugliness and beauty that resides in the truths about ourselves and others.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quester</title>
		<link>http://de-conversion.com/2009/12/23/an-epilogue/#comment-40448</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 00:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://de-conversion.com/?p=3527#comment-40448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Grace,

Which opinion, exactly? I&#039;m afraid I&#039;m not quite sure where you&#039;re going.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grace,</p>
<p>Which opinion, exactly? I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m not quite sure where you&#8217;re going.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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