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In case no one else has, I would like to apologize to everyone here on behalf of myself and anyone who claimed they were Christian that may have hurt anyone on this site. There are a lot of mislead people in the church who have no place as leaders. I am sincerely sorry and just hope that perhaps you can maybe one day see the good that I find in the belief-system, even if you do not believe in it yourself.

I just have to add that my previous posts were not really a good example of someone living a Christ-filled life so I’m sorry I let you guys down….

I’m sorry.

If you want to joust, I recommend “Pharyngula”. Go there and have at it.

This is a “sanctuary” for people who are hurting. They need to vent, they need to talk about what they have been through, and they need a shoulder to lean on.

Please leave them alone. Religion has caused them enough pain; they don’t need more of it.

If the problem was that you had a negative experience with Christianity then at least be objective enough to realize that you don’t represent a majority and that many people have great experiences with it. You are feigning persecution by now acting like this is a support group while you sling mud at an entire belief system; something AA absolutely does not do. You know why I was defensive? What I was reading people say did not look like a support group at all but rather another “atheists agree with each other” website. Inflammatory comments and all. I saw a lightning rod for for people disenfranchised with Christianity.

Also, I’m still waiting on a reaction to the Christian pastor in Iran sentenced to death and the drama surrounding it. Funny how the weighty stuff gets glossed over.

“It’s all around us—opportunists preying on other people for their own gain—and I personally try to oppose it wherever I have the ability: church, state or elsewhere.”

Agreed. It’s everywhere and I am glad that you try to oppose it. Drama generation is a natural human thing to do. But I find it especially reprehensible when used by religion. First, because religion usually claims to have some kind of “moral high ground”, and this kind of artificial drama is not consistent with that. Second, because people are often more reluctant to leave a church than quit a job or vote against a politician. If a church leader is pulling this kind of thing, and one of the members is really uncomfortable with that, there is often significant pressure on them not to leave. I’ve read far too many accounts of churches using threats, guilt, social ostracism and anything else they can come up with to keep unhappy members from leaving. If you quit a job because of a boss like this you “made a judgment call”. But if you quit a church because it’s doing the same thing, you’re a “sinner”, a “backslider”, you’re “in the grip of the devil,” etc, etc.

I hope that in the organization you lead this kind of thing does not happen.

As much as I would like to see religion decline and eventually disappear, the reality is that we are stuck with it for a long time to come. So, any move by church leaders away from fanaticism, drama and intolerance is an improvement. I am usually pleased when a church leader actually engages in conversation with non-believers instead of just preaching at us.

Mason was mocking us because this site exists, that is all I was taking him to task for. He (and you) are more than welcome to argue your points. As Ubi said, you don’t go to an AA meeting and tell them to get over it and quit talking about the horrors of alcohol. After all, there are billions of people who have no problems with it, right? Please.

Compassion and mercy have been valued in many societies. Study some history. I have a copy of the Egyptian “Book of the Dead” that predates all of the xian bible. Do you know what it says? It has the deceased telling the gods “I have not murdered, I have not cheated, I have given to the poor” Why does he say this? So that he will have a happy afterlife and not be found wanting when his heart is weighed in his final judgment. Christianity claims credit, but they didn’t invent any of those ideas.

Mason, this is a suppport group for those of us who are no-longer religious but still have to live in this religion-soaked society. We have to deal with people like you every day, people who blame humans for everything bad, but give them no credit for anything good. People who tell us we’re bad people for not believing in their invisible friend.

AND – when we point out the damage that religion does to people’s lives, what response do we get? “Go knit, and quit whining.” Religions desperately want atheists to shut up and go away. They want us to stop threatening their comfortable worldview with difficult questions. They cry persecution when we suggest that they are enjoying undeserved privilege. They try to insert themselves into every facet of our lives, and blame us for “whining” when we object. (And I don’t appreciate the slam on knitting either. I’m very good at it, and when I’m finished I have a sweater, which is more than anyone can say about prayer.)

Mason, you walked into our “Religioholics Anonymous” meeting. Do you walk into AA meetings and tell them to quit whining about alcohol? How would you expect them to react if you did that?

So, respectfully, buzz off.