Bringing the argument home to the apologists

April 27, 2013 at 5:11 am 15 comments

The good news is that today’s apologists find their own core belief indefensible. This is leading to an attempt to draw the debate away from the many core logical absurdities found in the “gospel”, and to a focus on arguments absent from what has lead most of them to their faith. These are just a decoy. Any proposal of a spherical cube of gold can be immediately dismissed due to the impossibility of a spherical cube, evidence of gold not withstanding. In like manner, any proposal of the logically impossible Christian god can be dismissed based on the impossibility of that god, in spite of proffered evidence of “changed lives” or “fine tuning” or perceived weaknesses in evolutionary theory or the need for “objective purpose”. Whatever gods may exist, the logically impossible god of the Bible is disqualified as a candidate due to his logical incoherence. Let’s avoid the intentional distractors, and bring the argument home to the apologists, smack-dab in their incoherent backyard of redemption.


Entry filed under: Phil Stilwell. Tags: , , , , .

Who’s Pathological? Linking a great post

15 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Anonymous  |  April 27, 2013 at 11:48 am

    the Church is just a fairy tale
    someone once said to me
    who must have felt infallible
    about Reality…

  • 2. cag  |  April 27, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Anonymous, the church exists, what the church preaches are fairy tales. Not ordinary fairy tales, but fairy tales designed to scam the uncritical. All religions are designed for the benefit of the leaders, not the masses. All religions are scams. If you give money to any religious entity you have been scammed.

  • 3. Anonymous  |  April 27, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    “Ever learning, yet never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” As if a Big Bang was the force that created mankind and morality.

    “You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.”

  • 4. cag  |  April 27, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Anonymous #3, if you have a point to make, please let us know. Just because we do not know exactly what the sequence was for the current iteration of the universe is no reason to posit a supernatural explanation. You are aware, I hope, that research is continuing and actually accelerating so that our understanding of natural processes is reducing the “we don’t know” gaps in our knowledge. At no point in this search has anything supernatural been the reason. Like all the other thousands of gods, those remaining are destined for exposure as human creations.

    The bible makes claims for truth. Claims are not proof. Real knowledge, based on reality, comes from science, not revelation. Do you accept that it took 5 days to create the earth and 1 day to create the rest of the universe? Does that even seem reasonable to you? It certainly does not ring true to me. Do you believe that the earth is fixed and immovable? Do you believe that the universe is geocentric? Do you believe in a “firmament”? These are beliefs that ancient people believed. Only god besotted people still hold such beliefs.

  • 5. Anonymous  |  April 28, 2013 at 12:08 am

    “Reason’s last step is that there are an infinite number of things which are beyond it.”

    -Blaise Pascal

  • 6. cag  |  April 28, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    Anonymous #5, quotes from a mid 17th century philosopher who gave us the utterly discredited “Pascal’s Wager” do not comport with the knowledge of the 21st century. Quoting Pascal to support religious belief is just marginally better than quoting the book of absurdities commonly known as the bible. Pascal would not have understood lightning and thunder or germs just to name a few of the things we have figured out since his time. Discovery is accelerating, not diminishing.

    Pascal, being constrained by religious doctrine, would have believed in a geocentric universe. His beliefs have been replaced by knowledge, knowledge that we can all use to escape the clutches of regressive religion. The Genesis account of creation falls apart with just a bit of knowledge. We now know that the universe came before the sun and the sun came before the earth. The bible is just a record of the ignorance and absurd beliefs of ignorant people. Educate yourself.

  • 7. Anonymous  |  April 29, 2013 at 3:16 am

    Yes, science is brilliant when it comes to the “how” questions.
    When it comes to questions about purpose, though- the “why” questions- we are in the realm of faith and philosophy.

    That’s life.

  • 8. Phil Stilwell  |  April 29, 2013 at 3:23 am

    Science finds no evidence for the existence of legitimate objective “whys”.

    That’s science.

  • 9. Anonymous  |  April 29, 2013 at 3:49 am

    OK, you’ve convinced me. All religious people are fools, the very possibility of objective purpose is off the table, and this we know infallibly. Period.


  • 10. Phil Stilwell  |  April 29, 2013 at 4:15 am

    Who knows that infallibly? Oh I get it. You’re setting up a strawman.

    How about this. Instead of mocking what you think is the dogmatism behind the claim, provide an argument demonstrating the claim to be ill founded. That’s more in line with what science does.

  • 11. Anonymous  |  May 7, 2013 at 11:51 pm

    What about the ancient astronauts?

  • 12. Brisancian  |  September 19, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    This is a fabulous illustration – kudos all around. As an engineer, I’ve thought that we really need more visuals for people to see. Its too perhaps too technical for some folks to listen to debaters and realize when a question has or has not been answered well – visuals really help. I have a few that I intend to put together… perhaps one on how the canons of OT/NT scripture were assembled. Keep up the good work.

  • 13. Phil Stilwell  |  September 20, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    Thanks for the comment, Jericho. It’s much appreciated.

  • 14. Brisancian  |  September 21, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Reblogged this on Jericho Brisance and commented:
    As an engineer, I have considered that illustrations would be of great benefit in clarifying the various issues surrounding the Bible and adverse evidence. This illustration was absolutely spot on per my own observations from the past year’s study. One of my critiques of Plantinga’s “Where the Conflict Really Lies” was that he made a project of defending a streamlined and generic theism, only to leap to a conclusion that Christianity was therefore more reasonable than non-belief. This illustration depicts precisely the downfall of the entire book. And such conflations abound everywhere. As I have posted elsewhere, theism or deism may possibly be true, but that does not save Christianity. The Bible’s credibility collapses on the great weight of disconfirming evidences and the many textual ascription crises.

  • 15. app musica romantica  |  October 4, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    hola Deseo Bajar Musica Cristiana
    me gusta lamusicxa instrumental es hermosos gracias por esta pagina me encanta gracias

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Attention Christian Readers

Just in case you were wondering who we are and why we de-converted.

de-conversion wager

Whether or not you believe in God, you should live your life with love, kindness, compassion, mercy and tolerance while trying to make the world a better place. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will have made a positive impact on those around you. If there is a benevolent God reviewing your life, you will be judged on your actions and not just on your ability to blindly believe in creeds- when there is a significant lack of evidence on how to define God or if he/she even exists.



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